Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by Hokusai on Monday January 17, 2022 @02:47PM
(#29970913)
I work with Estonians, silence is their way. Even Swedish colleges will say something given a long enough pause. Not the Estonians. I tried longer and longer pauses after asking if there are any question. I found the point that, one out of four times, someone will say 'No. There are no questions'. It feels like a really very long pause.
I'm Spanish, in my culture people will interrupt you mid sentence if they have something to say.
I just need to change expectations like I change languages. It's not a problem but it requires to think about your audience culture. They are just different.
I like the article and how shares this idiosyncrasy. I wish it talked about it as something normal, instead of something 'abnormal'. But it makes sense that it takes the British perspective.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by european321 on Monday January 17, 2022 @01:44PM
(#29970135)
As a Finn, working at an U.S. company, small talk is something I really struggled with and still don't fully understand. The people I interact with it seems like we have found sort of a middle ground, where people obviously still ask "How are you?", but people still feel comfortable to answer "Not so well, XYZ happened". Maybe I'm naive but I feel like that helps prevent issues from getting too big and offers a safe space to share how you feel and get compassion from your peers.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by clon on Monday January 17, 2022 @01:56PM
(#29970290)
As an Estonian, I can relate to this. "How are you" and similar drivel gets me every time and borderline drives me mad.
There is a brilliant comic called Finnish Nightmares that covers many situations like this. For anyone not Finnish (or Estonian) it is probably an inside joke.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by vidarh on Monday January 17, 2022 @04:51PM
(#29972098)
As a Norwegian who finds most Norwegians too chatty, my first experience with Americans saying "how are you?" as a greeting rather than a question still haunts me 15 years later.
Also explains why I enjoyed my (so far only) trip to Estonia so much.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by vintermann on Monday January 17, 2022 @05:24PM
(#29972355)
The top comic is a bit odd, though? I know a lot of wonderful choral music from Finland (more than from most countries!) so they can't all be afraid of singing in public.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by pbalau on Monday January 17, 2022 @01:28PM
(#29969894)
> If you’re a foreigner, congratulations – you’re probably the loudest person on their often (voluntarily) silent public transport.
I have this feeling that this is not a Finish thing, but a rest-of-the-world-apart-US, thing. In my ~40 years spent in Romania and now UK, I rarely saw people engaging strangers on public transport, let alone doing it loudly.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by vidarh on Monday January 17, 2022 @04:55PM
(#29972125)
I live in London, and you can tell the distance from London by how willing people are to give you eye contact or talk. I remember the sheer shock first time I traveled to Isle of Wight. First people had noticeably more open body language as we got further out, and once we got onto the train after the ferry over a stranger spoke to us.
It felt bizarre.
Now if you're travelling towards another city in the UK chances are you won't get nearly as dramatic an effect.
Dense urban areas tends to have people withdrawing into a cocoon even many places where people are usually friendlier.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by pbalau on Monday January 17, 2022 @06:15PM
(#29972822)
Well, if I am going somewhere and this IS the reason you are going to find me in a means of public transport, I really don't feel the need to entertain you. And the tube is mostly loud, so no reasonable way to have a conversation.
If we are in a pub, by all means, let's chat. I might even buy you the drinks for the rest of the night.
There is time for chatting and there is time for minding your <beep> mind. And I think I should get my British passport simply for believing and living by this idea.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by oatlgr on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @08:40AM
(#29978850)
An Isle of Wight’er here. We’re a welcoming bunch and when myself and my family travel to the North Island it does take a little adjustment in terms of adjusting to things such as body language and resisting the urge to speak with random people!
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by vidarh on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @11:43AM
(#29981753)
The funny thing is it's not just locals. You can feel the energy change on the train towards the coast as people get off and get on. People are more relaxed. Even the Londoners staying on the whole way starts to chill. I think when you're surrounded by a whole mass of people all the time and trying to navigate people who often want stuff from you, it's just natural to decide you need to ignore them or it'll be overwhelming.
Even where I live in South London, random strangers will say hi to you if you go for a walk in the park early enough in the morning, when they've not yet run into too many people. And then the later in the morning you go, the more people raises their shields.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by jeramey on Monday January 17, 2022 @07:35PM
(#29973416)
Seems true! The longest amount time I ever engaged with anyone on public transit was when I was sitting near a couple of fellows who had decided that polishing off a full case of long drink on the train ride north was a good idea. Thankfully, both were the I-love-you-man type versus the angry drunk type, especially since they wanted to talk about Trump-era politics once they figured out one of my companions and I were Americans.
My Belgian companion wisely kept his damn mouth shut the whole time.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by tapland on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @03:51AM
(#29976681)
People travel in groups and talk all the time. But you can hear American tourists or exchange students (mostly Erasmus) clearly across the platform on Stockholms
metro stations.
It's not about likelyhood of talking, but how loud you speak. I feel like my inlaws (from the US) are constantly shouting.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by jeramey on Monday January 17, 2022 @02:50PM
(#29970952)
I'm am American who works for a Finland-based employer which has given me a few opportunities to travel there. My experience suggests this is changing a bit generationally as I've generally found it pretty easy to have brief, friendly conversations with younger (say, under 35 or so) people at least in the Helsinki-Espoo areas.
The quiet public places and public transport do make my introverted heart gleeful, though. I also reckon that a group of German tourists can give Americans a run for their money in the boisterousness department. :)
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by NikolaeVarius on Monday January 17, 2022 @03:01PM
(#29971086)
No small talk is amazing. I went to a eastern european resteraunt. Waiters just said "what do you want" then after silently clearing our plates "check is here".
Amazing prompt service and no talking. Gave 30% to him
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by lbrito on Monday January 17, 2022 @10:41PM
(#29974800)
There's a difference between small talk and being polite.
As a Brazilian I was shocked at how polite people were abroad with pleases and thank yous. In Brazil I'm asked bluntly "what is the time?" by strangers on the street that just turn away after I answer. That is just rudeness, not directness.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by miika on Monday January 17, 2022 @02:55PM
(#29971012)
As a Finn I think that when people are not sure what to say.. but they feel like they should say something, then small talk is great.
Maybe we Finns think too much and say something only when we’re sure what to say, so it might be very compact, well thought package of information. Something like: “Sure. Good Bye.”
We also seem to share some bad drunken behavior and dark humor with English lads.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by cardiffspaceman on Monday January 17, 2022 @12:36PM
(#29969081)
Passionately-held opinions do not match my definition of small talk, but there are sufficient remaining counterfactuals that there is still humor in this remark, and the /s should stand.
Re:How the Finnish survive without small talk (2018)
by enra on Monday January 17, 2022 @12:47PM
(#29969207)
He is still a Finnish native who was born/lives in Finland but speaks Swedish as their native language. So he did grew up in the Finnish cultural environment
I'm Spanish, in my culture people will interrupt you mid sentence if they have something to say.
I just need to change expectations like I change languages. It's not a problem but it requires to think about your audience culture. They are just different.
I like the article and how shares this idiosyncrasy. I wish it talked about it as something normal, instead of something 'abnormal'. But it makes sense that it takes the British perspective.
There is a brilliant comic called Finnish Nightmares that covers many situations like this. For anyone not Finnish (or Estonian) it is probably an inside joke.
http://finnishnightmares.blogspot.com
Also explains why I enjoyed my (so far only) trip to Estonia so much.
I have this feeling that this is not a Finish thing, but a rest-of-the-world-apart-US, thing. In my ~40 years spent in Romania and now UK, I rarely saw people engaging strangers on public transport, let alone doing it loudly.
It felt bizarre.
Now if you're travelling towards another city in the UK chances are you won't get nearly as dramatic an effect.
Dense urban areas tends to have people withdrawing into a cocoon even many places where people are usually friendlier.
If we are in a pub, by all means, let's chat. I might even buy you the drinks for the rest of the night.
There is time for chatting and there is time for minding your <beep> mind. And I think I should get my British passport simply for believing and living by this idea.
Even where I live in South London, random strangers will say hi to you if you go for a walk in the park early enough in the morning, when they've not yet run into too many people. And then the later in the morning you go, the more people raises their shields.
My Belgian companion wisely kept his damn mouth shut the whole time.
It's not about likelyhood of talking, but how loud you speak. I feel like my inlaws (from the US) are constantly shouting.
The quiet public places and public transport do make my introverted heart gleeful, though. I also reckon that a group of German tourists can give Americans a run for their money in the boisterousness department. :)
Amazing prompt service and no talking. Gave 30% to him
Generally you round up, or give 10% if it's an occasion.
I should have said "service is included".
Which I (with my temporarily bruised ego) think means that the standard +10-20% that you apply in US it not really expected.
When I got here 30 years ago it was my first experience "interacting" with Finns and I always thought it was a problem with me (3rd gen Californian).
Thankfully, a long time local Norwegian friend told me a joke that cleared it all up.
Q: "How can you tell when a Finn is an extrovert?"
A: "They stare at your shoes instead of their own."
I asked my 3rd gen Finnish acquaintances about that, and they heartily agreed.
As a Brazilian I was shocked at how polite people were abroad with pleases and thank yous. In Brazil I'm asked bluntly "what is the time?" by strangers on the street that just turn away after I answer. That is just rudeness, not directness.
Taken from Arabic where it is evidenced since the 9th century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_is_silver,_silence_is_g...
" ... "
Maybe we Finns think too much and say something only when we’re sure what to say, so it might be very compact, well thought package of information. Something like: “Sure. Good Bye.”
We also seem to share some bad drunken behavior and dark humor with English lads.
I’ve often thought that too.
There’s a reason the Brits love Kimi Raikkonen!
/s for the newbies.
This would match Linus, no?
Most Scandinavians I know are direct, and out of all the Nordic people, the Finns are direct ++.
But I still stand by what I said.
You probably thought I was poor at geography, which is a fair assumption since this is quite the US-centric site. ;-)
Just ask his opinion on C++ and the ice will not just be broken - it will turn into a volcano.
Stark contrast to summer park drinking. The noise of everybody talking is ear-splitting.