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Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by autokad on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @04:33PM (#29815262)
> "My biggest gripe is that Leetcode is systematically favoring candidates who have months of free time to memorize arbitrary logic puzzles. It makes me sad for the less privileged candidates who might be working a job while also trying to break into the IT field."

I told google that this style of interviewing is discriminatory, especially towards people with families, or other commitments. Never got another call for an interview since ^_^

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by coliveira on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @07:56PM (#29817626)
> I told google that this style of interviewing is discriminatory, especially towards people with families

But this is exactly the point, to be discriminatory while using a valid excuse for doing so.

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by reaperducer on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @05:17PM (#29815856)
I told one that I am a human being, not a circus animal here to do tricks, and if they want me to do live coding, they'd have to pay me for my time.

Same result as you: The recruiters stopped bothering me.

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by igorstellar on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @06:03PM (#29816431)
Actually, that's not a half bad idea. If phone interview is passed, on-site time should be paid since the market is too hot. I wasted about 5 hours with Google (I did get an offer after the interview) but it was horrible experience (2019). Maybe if I was paid for that time I could at least justify this incredible time-waste. For example, companies do pay for people to fly-in for onsite interviews, so they do have budget for that.

UPD: I have provided negative feedback to my recruiter and they still reaching out to me. Really doubt companies ever act on any of candidate feedbacks since candidates are not employee (I know my previous company didn't, asking for feedback was just a "wanna look good in your eyes" question).

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by ThrowawayR2 on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @07:18PM (#29817289)
> "If phone interview is passed, on-site time should be paid since the market is too hot."

And what happens later when the market is not so hot? I was around for both the dot com bust and 2008 recession. The current hot market should not be taken for granted; it isn't going to last forever.

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by pinewurst on Thursday January 06, 2022 @05:53PM (#29831699)
I bailed on a Google interview loop after the recruiter literally told me that they'd, "like to bring you in and put you through your paces". I'm no one's trained pony.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by khazhoux on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @09:16PM (#29818297)
I'm not a huge fan of coding tests, but as a hiring manager, we do them during my team's interviews.

I'm not looking for a leetcoder. But I've had to reject candidates who otherwise seemed really strong, but then it turns out that they completely struggled with every aspect of a simple python question.

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by sgtnoodle on Thursday January 06, 2022 @05:21AM (#29821745)
I've probably been involved with 500 interviews at this point, primarily as a technical screener. If a candidate is applying for a job that requires working with code in some capacity, it would be foolish not to test and quantify those skills. Someone that muddles through but has fun and learns something during a tough interview is more likely to progress through the pipeline than an "expert" with a chip on their shoulder. I've witnessed a handful of "highly experienced" candidates make it to the onsite interview stage and then epically botch it purely with their attitude when asked to actually solve a problem within a set of constraints (isn't that what engineering is?) In almost all those cases, there were subtle red flags the resume or earlier round of interviews, and the interview question was intentionally designed to dig into those flags.

The difference is that a candidate with a good attitude and growth potential is usually worth hiring even if they're not a fit for the role they applied for, and so the hiring manager will get creative trying to make something work.

Perhaps some of the well known tech companies don't put the same level of care into their interview pipelines, and then folk become jaded and irrational? Does anyone remember that Office episode where Ray Romano interviews for the manager position and talks about how all his old coworkers are jerks while eating a sandwich out of his briefcase?

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by slim109ya on Thursday January 06, 2022 @08:57AM (#29823540)
What's an example of a 'simple python question that someone failed?' And was it something that truly showed incompetance?

In my experience, it turns out to be some dark corner of the language, or a keyword that's not in common use today. Examples are: 'void' in JavaScript and 'boxing' in C#

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by sorry_outta_gas on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @05:02PM (#29815663)
the best part is that when you're done with the on-site you get a survey with a question like "do you think google's making the world a better place?" hah

personally I think they do make some pretty cool things here and there but they do have very pretentious vibe all throughout

the phase of technology that they own/owned is nearing end soon anyway

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by chiph on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @06:49PM (#29816984)
> do you think google's making the world a better place?

Silicon Valley, season 1 episode 1: "But most importantly we're making the world a better place. Through constructing elegant hierarchies for maximum code reuse and extensibility."

Mike Judge is a genius.

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by jasonladuke0311 on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @07:22PM (#29817324)
> Mike Judge is a genius.

He really is. Any one of his properties would prove that by itself. Having such keen insights into disparate facets of humanity tells me that he just gets humans on a level not many other people do. Hopefully that doesn’t sound too flowery and pretentious.

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by celim307 on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @09:52PM (#29818614)
I think he nails satire and weirdness of humans well, similar to apatow, but I think he falls flat on the more emotional or positive aspects of humanity.

Not to say he’s not a master of his craft, and king of the hill especially had tender moments, but maybe that’s just not what he’s interested in

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by jasonladuke0311 on Thursday January 06, 2022 @02:20PM (#29828530)
> I think he nails satire and weirdness of humans well, similar to apatow, but I think he falls flat on the more emotional or positive aspects of humanity.

That's a fair criticism. Much of his work comes off as deeply cynical.

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by dustymcp on Thursday January 06, 2022 @04:45AM (#29821408)
He makes comedy, not drama?
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by astronautjones on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @08:07PM (#29817712)
When I last saw geto boys live, willie d introduced the set by saying "we know why y'all are here, that's why this is the office space tour. and you know mike judge is the greatest satirist of this generation, watch silicon valley sundays on hbo" and then they went into "still" and bushwick bill beat up a printer on stage with a baseball bat. it was transcendent.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by rjzzleep on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @05:55PM (#29816324)
When Amazon reached out to me I told them happy to talk to them, but I don't do coding tests. No response since then. I think it was a friends recommendation though, so in hindsight, maybe I should have at least listened.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by behringer on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @11:23PM (#29819363)
I wouldn't feel bad. Friends don't tell friends to work at Amazon. :P
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by thekingofravens on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @11:47PM (#29819529)
That depends what they know. As this article describes, Amazon is like a federation of mini-companies. So the right team is Great.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by mikesabbagh on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @08:23PM (#29817852)
why do you want to work for Amazon and Google when there are so many great companies that would appreciate you every day (and pay you more)
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by darth_avocado on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @08:53PM (#29818111)
No. There are companies where you can have a life, but they are boring. And there are companies that pay you more, but there’s always a catch. In my long resume consisting of Startups to SV Giants, not one company paid you a lot to do less work.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by bumby on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @09:00PM (#29818164)
I’ve heard it described as: “You can work on interesting problems, have a great work-life balance, or get paid really well, but you can only select two.”
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by nerdponx on Thursday January 06, 2022 @03:11AM (#29820742)
I don't care about interesting problems. I want to get paid really well and have a great work-life balance.

But I don't think those jobs exist unless you're already an expert in something and can get by on the expertise that you already have. Please prove me wrong!

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by bumby on Friday January 07, 2022 @09:26AM (#29839432)
My take is that any desirable combination probably takes some up-front work, sacrifice, and luck.

For your example combination, I've known entrepreneurs who've met that mark, but it took some initial risk taking and sacrifice. The work isn't sexy by most SV measures but they make extremely good money and one in particular takes months off every year to travel in Europe while in his 30s. I wouldn't call them an 'expert', they just found a niche that other people didn't find interesting enough to pursue.

Likewise, for other combinations (say 'interesting work + high pay') you may have to put in early work for a PhD where you aren't getting paid well initially. For other combinations ('work-life-balance + interesting work') I've known people who essentially worked for free in order to network and prove themselves until they were offered one of those positions.

I guess the point I'm making is that those desirable combinations don't naturally just fall into the laps of most of us but are the product of deliberate and conscience up-front work that can't necessarily be templated out.

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by Retric on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @09:06PM (#29818225)
The consultant side can do all three, but it’s a tough balancing act. You need the right niche, the right connections, great technical skills, and great social skills.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by pjmlp on Thursday January 06, 2022 @02:23AM (#29820450)
Or work for an agency. :)
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by bumby on Friday January 07, 2022 @09:19AM (#29839354)
*As a contractor

I don't think most civil servants qualify for the high pay portion (at least by comparison to SV pay scales), as their pay is capped. And work as a contractor brings about a host of other issues

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by arvinsim on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @10:24PM (#29818940)
Maybe it's just me but finding a job that has great work-life balance and pays well is hard.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by bumby on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @10:49PM (#29819124)
“Pays well” is probably relative. You can certainly find them in lower cost-of-living areas by the local standard but it’s pretty hard to find SV-type pay
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by jjav on Thursday January 06, 2022 @02:27AM (#29820474)
I would like "interesting problems" + "great work-life balance". Any recommendations on places these days? Don't seem to exist anymore, sadly.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by nickd2001 on Thursday January 06, 2022 @05:21AM (#29821744)
Government. Academia. Speaking from experience. :). You won't get rich, but you won't starve either. And your pension might not be a complete disaster.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by bumby on Friday January 07, 2022 @09:30AM (#29839484)
Just to pile on late, I would add to this. To meet the "interesting" part, you may be able to extend it to a National Laboratory, which is a bit quasi-government.

The academia route certainly exists, but the glut of of PhDs compared to available positions combined with the amount of complaining I've heard from non-tenured professors would make me a bit hesitant to advocate this route as a general recommendation. But there are other staff positions that might better fit that bill

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by gmac on Thursday January 06, 2022 @07:55AM (#29822949)
Seconded (I’m in academia, my wife is in government).
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by mcejp on Friday January 07, 2022 @09:27AM (#29839450)
CERN ;)
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by sameerds on Thursday January 06, 2022 @05:49AM (#29821954)
Totally my life. I keep the middle one fixed, and then see-saw on the other two!
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by jrockway on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @08:46PM (#29818049)
Who is paying more than Amazon and Google right now? Investment banks, maybe?
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by decafninja on Thursday January 06, 2022 @09:20AM (#29823793)
Haha, investment banks do not pay SWEs well at all (outside of certain rare elite niche roles anyways).

You'll be lucky to make half the compensation a FAANG engineer makes at a typical investment bank while always being treated as a second class cost center employee.

Amongst the FAANG companies, my understanding for compensation is:

Netflix, Facebook > Google > Apple, Amazon

...adding in the MULA companies, believe Uber, Lyft, and Airbnb are towards the upper end of the spectrum while Microsoft is towards the lower. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by tfehring on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @11:46PM (#29819511)
https://levels.fyi/2021

Also my impression is that Amazon’s effective comp is significantly below the headline number because they heavily backload RSUs and they burn out or fire so many people in the first couple years.

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by oangemangut on Thursday January 06, 2022 @12:31AM (#29819851)
usually the signing bonus they offer for years 1 and 2 makes up for the backloaded RSU schedule... at least that's mostly how my offer worked circa 2019
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by free652 on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @09:35PM (#29818454)
Quants: Citadel and Jane Street.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by bimboler38 on Thursday January 06, 2022 @12:31AM (#29819845)
GL getting in. The interviews are arguably harder than that of FAANG.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by flippinburgers on Thursday January 06, 2022 @04:52AM (#29821459)
I have never had the luck (I guess) to run across a company that is both great to work at and pays well.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by ethbr0 on Thursday January 06, 2022 @05:19AM (#29821722)
If they're great to work at, they don't have to pay top dollar to attract and (more importantly) retain people.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by decafninja on Thursday January 06, 2022 @01:59PM (#29828175)
I would argue most* FAANG and similar companies are some of the best companies to work at as a SWE, in addition to paying well.

No company is perfect, not even FAANG. However despite their many warts, I would argue they are still better than working at most other companies outside of the Silicon Valley tech sector where the vast majority of SWEs are employed.

* Of course, there are exceptions. Amazon seems to be particularly notorious.

Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by NotSammyHagar on Thursday January 06, 2022 @04:01AM (#29821060)
Google and amazon pay pretty well. Please list a few companies that treat you better and pay more.
Re:I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months by throw1234651234 on Wednesday January 05, 2022 @08:39PM (#29817992)
(and pay you more).

No.