lol this is so patently false. in a family very close to me, the husband would very much like his wife to wear not hijab and his wife tells him to mind his own business. both are muslim.

Tell it to this girl [1], or this [2] girl. You won't be able to tell it to this [3] girl, because she killed herself, rather than submitting to this barbarity.

If you have some anecdotal example of a person who does this willingly (likely because of systemic multigenerational indoctrination), it does not prove that many other women are not willing to submit to this requirement, yet, are powerless to resist it without having to face severe consequences.

[1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56085734 [2]: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348389/Muslim-woma... [3]: https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2013/07/17/Eg...

Because you can come up with people being psychotic monsters, it does not mean people are psychotic monsters.

There are a lot of barbaric things that go on in families all over the world in all sorts of families. What exactly is your point?

The point is that wearing hijab is coercion. It is not a 'free choice'. Nobody chooses to be a sub-human, unless forced or brain-washed since early childhood.

And the solution to that imaginary problem is.. to ban all women from wearing hijab? Excellent logic.

Of course, male from Saudi Arabia claims that this problem is imaginary. What a surprise. /s

Just because you decided to consider this problem imaginary, it does not mean that this problem does not exist in the real world, bringing suffering to millions of disenfranchised women.

Wow, you’re completely off the mark, buddy! But nice try with the amateur OSINT haha.

Well, yes. What solution do you propose? Mass propaganda? Perhaps possible in 2021, but it wouldn't have been as effective in the 1930s.

Why did you use the word “propaganda”? Why not “education”?

Regardless of the time period, I would simply propose focusing on educating current and future generations that men and women have equal rights.

If you dig into history a bit, you’ll find that state-sponsored persecution - ethnic, religious, or otherwise - is almost always guaranteed to backfire in the long run.

Because I dislike euphemisms.

Is it any less propaganda just because you agree with it?

Educating people of what? "Gender equality is good" is a normative statement.

And nitpicking aside, my point stands entirely, whether it's "propaganda" or "education".

Fair enough.

I definitely simplified things a bit, but you can educate people on how to conduct themselves over the long term through various mechanisms. Many countries used this approach effectively to solve actual societal issues; however, the hijab is not a societal issue in and of itself.

But what is the problem?

It may have a religious origin but a headscarf is a fashion accessory. Like trousers or shirt buttons. We could ban them too, just for fun!

Up with skirts! Down with trousers!

See? What fun!

Okay, let’s work with that.

Do you also apply that logic to Sikh turbans (dastar)? In other words, do you believe that forbidding Sikhs from covering their hair is not religious persecution? How do you think Sikhs would react to that?

Edit: Or wait, I might have misunderstood: do you actually think that a hijab is equivalent to a generic headscarf? If so, it is not - please read a bit about it before commenting further.

I am with you, not against you. Turbans are fine by me. Of course banning them is religious persecution (there is an interesting intersection with motor cycle helmet laws) I do not want to wear one (but I have been known to wear a headscarf) There is no justification for fashion law.

The niqāb is problematic. I find it difficult to talk with some one when I cannot see their face. (Then there was Covid....). I am not sure if that is a personal quirk or a basis for a justifiable fashion law!

And of course a hijab is a headscarf. Not just a head scarf, like a turban is a hat, not just a hat. Why would we want to ban either?

Sorry about that - sarcasm is tough to detect sometimes haha!

I agree about the niqab as it can be a bit of a hurdle to deal with in some situations.