It’s not really FUD in the vast majority of cases, though. Kodi is used to play pirated content the vast majority of the time. No value judgment either way by me but it’s obviously true. Same with Plex.

I think it becomes FUD when the same message is not applied to other similar products.

Windows Media Player must also be used a incredible amount to watch pirated content, but it's not a label we put on it.

It comes down, to me, to the primary goal of the userbase. Primary goal of Kodi/XBMC/Plex/Emby users is generally piracy. Not true for WMP.

There is some line but it's unclear and I don't know exactly how to draw it

Are you sure most people who use wmp in 2021 aren't just using it to watch the downloaded movie/show/etc?

Serious question, because most people just do media in their browser or iTunes (or equivalent from various streaming services) at this point.

Is VLC a piracy tool? What about mpv?

I suspect you are deciding what a tool is for and then deciding the motivations of that tool's users based on what you decided the tool is for.

Compare: The vast majority of lockpick owners just think it's a fun skill. They never use the picks other than on locks that are explicitly purchased for picking (locks they or a friend own, usually not actually locking anything, etc). Yet when traveling to (e.g. defcon) places where they will be socially lockpicking with other enthusiasts, the TSA often harasses people for being theives. It's happened to me and plenty of others because folks decide the intent based on the tool.

Fine, I'll bite.

Any stats to back "the vast majority"? Isn't that to be expected of literally any media player software? You obviously need a number of non drm-crippled media to watch and you care about quality/features/availabilty:

https://xkcd.com/488/

There is no hard data, of course. But a quick look at Kodi communities, for instance “Addons4Kodi” on Reddit shows that the vast majority of the top posts are dedicated to piracy. And even dipping your toe into Kodi communities shows it pretty clearly.

> Isn't that to be expected of literally any media player software?

I guess how you define the term. Apple TV? No, I’d say the majority of users are watching copyrighted DRM streams. But it’s definitely media player software.

This is like saying cars are used to escape from bank robberies or people walk out their front doors to commit crimes.

Just insane, sorry.

Try "cars are used to commute". Still insane? No, because that's a very likely usecase. Just like playing pirated content via a media center.

Now why would your reply completely ignore the actual likelihood of an event?

No it's absolutely and completely nonsense. Try "Kodi is used to manage and play video files" instead. Because (a) that is not illegal and (b) that is true.

You have no idea how many people use Kodi to manage their dvds they ripped using handbrake, for example. None. Zero. You have no idea how many people use kodi for streaming Al-Jazeera news or msnbc/fox disinformation. So now you're just speculating and trying to claim a useful tool, like a car, can be used in association with an illegal act, like a bank robbery getaway car. That's it. Even if you did have actual data, which you don't, it's utterly irrelevant. There is are multiple ordinary, expected, and designed for legal uses of kodi. Kodi is being used legally, properly and ethically by a great many people. That is clear and not in dispute.

Take it one step further to see it with stunning clarity. What percentage of home computers have been used in some fashion with copyrighted material where Disney et al claim they should be paid ever more and have repeatedly changed laws by paying large sums to politicians to effect that law-enforcement supported revenue increase? With no data someone claims "most home computers are used this way" and makes your comment about ignoring likelihood when called out for it. It really is just a nuts analysis and should be called as such.

Can you elaborate? Are you saying there is FUD against Kodi or XBMC or BY them?

4-5 (ish?) Years ago there was a lot of media coverage about how kodi was a "piracy app" because some cheap set tops were shipping it with bundled torrent (etc) plugins. There were various legal threats against the project itself. Worth searching for in hn archives, lots of good discussion about it and how much of a coordinated smear campaign it was/n't.

To show just how much the XBMC Foundation is against using their work for piracy:

They chose the name Kodi because it was the most protectable trademark they could claim, which opened an avenue for them to sue the drop-shippers for trademark violation.

I feel they’re in the same position Dolphin is - attempting to keep a center of respectability above what everyone knows the product is actually used for.

The emulation scene is more extra than I can handle atm, so I'll focus more on the XBMC Foundation:

What more can they do? They make a legal product with plenty of legal and licensed uses and they did their due diligence to prevent piracy via their product as much as possible. They also did so without being hostile to customers and unnecessarily locking-down their plugin system.

A little virtue signaling can go a long way sometimes.

Piracy is a moral obligation.

Not consuming media offered by a corrupt system would be plausible. And there would be plenty of choices to source content directly from artists. Or make your own.

Pirating content is just something people do because it's technically feasible. To silence the cognitive dissonance and justify the behavior towards their peers and reconcile it with the rest of their character (presumably they would not steal physical objects with a clear ownership status), this narrative of a morally motivated fight against the big bad recording company or film studio is employed. It's intellectually dishonest.

As someone who sees pirating as civil disobedience, I would like to respectfully disagree.

Disney (and friends) spend the GDP of a small country to ensure that my entire life is surrounded by their products and enshrined themselves in international treaties to ensure that it will remain so. I could stop consuming their media, which would require me to withdraw from 90% of all movies and music that my friends and family want to watch, which whether I like it or not is what I would call "my culture".

I don't think this is fair, specially considering that I had no say in this state of things and that changing it would require me to essentially mobilize my entire nation against the foreign interests of the USA.

I don't expect everyone to agree with this point of view, but to call it "intellectually dishonest" feels to me like an unnecessary agression. If anything, I would counterargue: expecting people to either pay a toll to access their culture or to to become "cultural monks" is what's truly wrong, especially when there's an alternative that literally favors the interests of people over corporations.

I am re-listening to Lessig's "Free Culture" this week while driving. My oh my how the younger generation has been conditioned to have no rights as consumers. Just pay perpetually and hope permission is granted, the licensing doesn't require yet another subscription and hope the servers don't go down b/c they're no longer profitable. When driving in silence it sounds just like my Yahoo Music library sounds these days.

this civil disobedience, is it just evening the score between you and Disney? Because that I would understand. What I'm criticising is the claim of piracy as some sort of moral fight of the oppressed. The noble filesharer uploading this year's Transformers instalment for the greater good. That's just giving it way more credit than it deserves.

This is true AFAIK. Growing up in a lower economic class, I'd engage in piracy simply because modern computers make it trivial. At first it was for entertainment, but over time it exposed me to programming. Piracy ended up being a gateway to building my career, so I'm thankful for that much. Even if it's kind of ironic.

I have and will gladly pay money for authors/developers that really get me excited, though consuming so much interesting content for free can make me pretty jaded. To a pirate, paying for certain software might as well be giving a donation.

I personally find more intellectually dishonest to compare piracy to theft.

Why?

Intellectual property is theft by the corporations — it is literally charging us to partake in our own culture. And if you’re a creator and create something derivative, expect tens of thousands in a legal judgement against you just because you’re a creative fan. Even decades after the creator is dead, and can no longer benefit.

>it is literally charging us to partake in our own culture

If I create something it's not your culture unless I decide to share it.

If you agree to erase your memory of all culture surrounding you and to create truly from blank than your statement could have some sense.

The culture around our current set of movies very very very likely wouldn't exist without for profit markets for that IP. Sorry my blood, sweat, tears in making new items isn't "free" for you to take unless I release it as free (which I certainly have in the past). I mean you can steal it obviously because it's an IT product but that doesn't make it moral at least not in my culture.

The current set of movies wouldn't be possible without thousands of years of myths, legends, stories and other fiction that was in public domain when these movies were made. Are you willing to pay countries royalties for their myths and legends.

Mel Gibson definitely ripped off the Bible in Passion of the Christ. He should pay royalties to the one true church.

You know the one.

But I’m not sure what the Discordians would do with all that money.

Campaign to get ddate back on most distros?

To the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster obviously.

It generally wouldn’t be piratable if you chose to never release it at all.

Just by creating it? Indeed, that doesn't necessarily make it my culture.

However, it does become my culture once my entire city is plastered with posters for it, its music plays on every radio twice a day, my children play with toys based on its characters, and/or conversations with my friends refer to it years after the thing came out.

Piracy is the only way to disarm this immoral system where all the "legal" alternatives are basic assaults on our consumer rights that leaves us with no real good ethical choice,

Your comment makes sense only to someone who already agrees with you and is similarly informed/misinformed. It does not provide any insight to those not sharing the same knowledge as you.

Right off the bat, anyone can contest:

- "only"

- "immoral"

- "assaults"

- "ethical"

Your comment provides no context or support for any of these.

If you want an essay, we can agree to a rate and I can write it after you send me the check.

If you want people to "disarm an immoral system", you're not going to get far if you want to be paid to convince them.

"One should not use X!"

"Why?"

"Pay me and I'll explain!"

I don't want to convince them of anything.

Because we still have DRM in 2021.

It's disgraceful.

The Walt Disney Company. One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.

I don’t see much of an issue with Disney getting paid for the new content they produce. If I want to watch the new Bad Batch episodes, I can either pay for a Disney+ subscription and increase the official view count, thereby increasing the project’s revenue and likelihood the folks working on it have their contracts renewed, or I can convince myself Disney is some evil corporation consisting of people who don’t deserve to be compensated for their efforts and pirate it. Back when I was a kid with no assets to my name piracy made some sense. However, now that I have the means to support creators, I do.

> Back when I was a kid with no assets to my name piracy made some sense. However, now that I have the means to support creators, I do.

This is the most sensible argument I've heard for being anti-piracy. It is a matter of means, and I've had a similar experience with my approach to piracy.

I'd be interested to know more statistics about what demographics perform piracy and on what kinds of media.

I'm not entirely sure, but perhaps there's an argument to be made that since it's pretty much the only way to get DRM free copies of certain materials piracy at times is justified.