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Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by TheSocialAndrew on Friday December 17, 2021 @01:43PM (#29596431)
As a short-term housing operator in the Bay Area, specializing in hosting tech workers, we've witnessed first hand the decline in quality of life and exile of the tech traveler.

It started with homeless people camping out in front of our units in SoMa and Mission (often times blocking the entrance/exit because some units had a direct street-level entrance), petty package theft and occasional car break-ins in the building garages.

Police couldn't do anything but take a report.

Then the pandemic started and the vacancy rate skyrocketed. We started getting reports from neighbors or the on-site management that are our guests are dealing drugs out of our units. Except that these units were supposed to be vacant. Our lockboxes were getting broken into, keys taken and people have been living there for several days and in some cases weeks. We often had footage of this.

We would call the police as we arrived at these units for our protection, but they wouldn't be able to arrest anyone because the people in the unit would say "so and so gave me the keys, told me this is their apartment, I don't know anything about that broken lockbox."

This scheme quickly expanded to Cupertino, Sunnyvale, Milpitas and other South Bay cities. We would call the police on a daily basis in the first few months of the pandemic. Sometimes it would take them an hour or two to come, and if the squatters saw our team at the building and got wind of what was going on, they would start packing up their car with our appliances: Apple TV, Nespresso machine, we've even had furniture and major appliances like TVs, washer and dryer rolled out while we were waiting for the police to come.

At most they would temporarily restrain these squatters if they had previous warrants (many of them did, but many others didn't produce an ID.) But even with warrants for their arrest, they would get uncuffed and released within an hour. We thought that at least a warrant would have them appear in front of a judge and we'd not have to encounter them again in a few days at another building, but the pandemic gave them a free pass.

The officers were very candid in saying that if it was up to them, they would book them, but they have instructions not to bring anyone in for non-violent crime. Theft is not prosecuted.

This is how it goes, anyone that has any doubt that crime is not prevented, pursued or prosecuted should go on a ride-along to any of these calls.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by orasis on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:03PM (#29597651)
I simply can’t fathom how tax payers allow this to happen. Is someone from the Midwest I cannot understand the mindset that says this type of thing is OK? I guess the Bay Area selects against people that think like me so it becomes a self reinforcing problem??
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by WalterBright on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:18PM (#29597823)
> I simply can’t fathom how tax payers allow this to happen.

There are a lot of voters who are not taxpayers.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by impute on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:51PM (#29598195)
And a lot of taxpayers who are not voters (non-citizens).
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by adamrezich on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:39PM (#29598042)
while true, the bigger problem is the "two-party system." Democrats get voted in and do nothing or make things worse, but when election time comes around again, people'll keep voting Democrat again and again, because they're most certainly not going to vote Republican, and we've somehow been brainwashed into thinking that those are the only two options for any elected position. with no viable competition, corruption spreads and entrenches itself, and the whole region generally decays over time.

that it's the Democratic Party we're talking about here is irrelevant—this is just a natural consequence of the two-party system.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by jedberg on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:44PM (#29598714)
That may be generally true, but not in SF. We have open primaries. Most elections are two Democrats against each other. Sometimes it's even a Democrat vs. a Green.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by olivermarks on Friday December 17, 2021 @05:07PM (#29598949)
I'm a bay area registered Democrat and strongly agree - no electable opposition party = political atrophy and the corruption we are seeing more and more of
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by lupire on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @04:55PM (#29642609)
There is a specific District Attorney in SF who is extremely anti-law enforcement and campaigned on it explicitly, and fulfilled his promise.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesa_Boudin

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by forrestthewoods on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:59PM (#29598283)
Building a single new unit of housing in SF costs like $400,000 and takes years of cutting through red tape.

There’s far fewer homeless in the Midwest because homes are actually affordable. The poverty, squalor, heroin addiction is just as bad. It’s just out of sight.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by jedberg on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:45PM (#29598724)
> There’s far fewer homeless in the Midwest because homes are actually affordable.

I suspect it also has to do with that fact that if you are homeless in winter you will die.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by stjohnswarts on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:27PM (#29600955)
It sounds like (maybe?) the SF mayor is tire of this and things might turn around but I doubt if one official can turn it around given the overly lax policies CA government has expressed lately. I think the pendulum has swung to far the other way now and people are tired of the petty crime, breakins, and harassment they get on the streets. It all feels dangerous, even if your personal chances of experience violence is low because most criminals know if they cross that line they might actually have to face some jail time.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by vmception on Friday December 17, 2021 @08:39PM (#29600628)
There is a time delay to any voter related action.

In a transient place like the bay area, the voters also do not experience the consequence of their votes and follow along with whatever trendy compassion based arguments is around at the time, the one year they vote.

The people who run for office are not many. Most of these positions are uncontested.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by amitkgupta84 on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:08PM (#29598362)
That’s right, you nailed it.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by jedberg on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:43PM (#29598702)
In other countries, like South Africa, private security is a big industry. Since everyone knows the police are easily bribed, buildings hire private security. I stayed at an AirBnB in an apartment building, and they had 24 hour, onsite, heavily armed security. Who also helped us with our bags!

I suspect SF may move towards this model soon. You can already see it around Union Square. They are hiring off duty cops to monitor the stores.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by stjohnswarts on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:33PM (#29600990)
1 off duty isn't going to be able to stop these flash mob breakins. I imagine they could be very effectual in apartment building and such though.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by wonnage on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:01PM (#29597622)
You've basically described running a fancy motel for tech workers. Do you guys not have any form of front desk/building management on site? It seems crazy to run a housing unit with so many people coming in and out otherwise, particularly in those neighborhoods.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by pvarangot on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:05PM (#29597674)
I lived in a shared house in the Mission and the neighborhood is still safe enough so that you don't need that. We literally buzzed in anyone that dare ring and friends are still there and still do and never in the two years I lived there, one pandemic one not, we had issues with people wandering in unchecked and doing nasty stuff inside. The Bay Area insecurity thing is blown out of proportion. I'm in Noe Valley now and my drunk condo neighbor forgot the garage door open and it took like four or five hours for someone to actually take something from inside and it was a guy that was clearly not doing well, he wasn't even wearing shoes.

So in my experience so far bros in finance just out of college renting a 3 million condo are more at fault for stuff getting stolen from my property than the cops, the homeless and politicians.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by slices on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:14PM (#29598429)
> my drunk condo neighbor forgot the garage door open and it took like four or five hours for someone to actually take something from inside

In most of the US, including many moderate size cities, a garage left open for 4-5 hours would not have anything stolen from it.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by pvarangot on Friday December 17, 2021 @05:02PM (#29598898)
Yeah I'm not saying San Francisco doesn't have an issue with the mentally ill and antisocial chaps stealing from everyone, I'm just saying that my direct experience doesn't match what one would expect when reading headlines or outraged people on online forums. I lived in Argentina before and I was home invaded at gunpoint once, mugged on the street once, and fended off muggers on the street countless times, so maybe I'm just not a good reference because Mission St. between 16th and 24th was the safest place I lived in my life until I moved to Noe Valley.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by EricE on Friday December 17, 2021 @10:36PM (#29601357)
So SF isn't as bad as the third world? Whew - what a relief /s

The amount of utter BS people in CA are willing to put up with never ceases to amaze me. Which is why I find it harder and harder to have any sympathy. At this time we might as well let it all burn down - maybe then people will finally get off their asses and vote for anyone other than the current crop of utter moron politicians that are literally destroying the state.

When CA goes from the most prosperous state to loosing enough pop to get demoted a representative in the House - you'd think that would be enough of a wake up call that shit democrat policies might not be such a good idea. But here we continue to remain talking about this stuff while nothing changes.

The faster it all just burns to the ground the faster it might get rebuilt into something that's not a literal needle infested pile of shit :/

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by dragonwriter on Friday December 17, 2021 @10:51PM (#29601441)
> When CA goes from the most prosperous state to loosing enough pop to get demoted a representative in the House

It didn't lose any population. Because of the fixed size of the House, you can lose a rep while gaining population (in California’s case, gaining more than 2.2 million between the 2010 and 2020 census.) Also, apportionment isn't tied at all to prosperitt; California didn't get any less relatively prosperous to lose a seat, so your “going from...” doesn't make any sense, even ignoring the factual error about losing population.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by barbacoa on Saturday December 18, 2021 @01:39AM (#29602290)
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/07/us/california-population-drop...

California experienced a population decline in 2021, the first in its history as a state. That may be what GP was referring.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by dragonwriter on Saturday December 18, 2021 @02:17AM (#29602473)
> California experienced a population decline in 2021, the first in its history as a state. That may be what GP was referring.

That couldn't be the population drop GP referred to costing a house seat, since it was after the Census on which the apportionment was based, and would have no effect on apportionment except in how it contributes to the state at the time of the 2030 Census.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by pvarangot on Monday December 20, 2021 @01:00PM (#29627745)
No, it's better than the third world. You are arguing with yourself, no one said it's as bad as the third world. I literally said it's the safest place I've ever lived in my life.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by stjohnswarts on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:35PM (#29601002)
Yeah I leave mine open all the time when I go on store runs as I figure it increases the life of my garage door opener by a fair bit. I've never had anything stole (I have a camera system and alarm would go off if they had because of motion sensors)
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by TheSocialAndrew on Friday December 17, 2021 @05:43PM (#29599255)
In large cities on the east coast we didn't run into this problem because nearly every new development had a doorman.

In the Bay Area and LA many apartment buildings don't have a front desk, they have a leasing office that may or may not be open, and typically keeps odd hours.

With the exception of high-rises, new developments in SF and South Bay with under 200 units typically don't have a front desk.

They do have security patrol come in for a couple of hours nightly, but they're not supposed to get involved and just take notes of suspicious activity, then email it to the leasing office to review the next day. Security will call the police if it's blatant theft of break-in, but they rarely catch it because this is one person patrolling a garage and endless hallways for just a few hours each night. When the security patrol car is by the building entrance, they can return a couple of hours later to steal packages, break into the bike room, break into cars, open lockboxes, etc.

However, things got out of hand significantly during the pandemic. Package theft and mailbox theft started happening during daylight hours. At one building in Mountain View they stole the USPS master key as the mail carrier had the boxes open putting in the mail. One leasing agent was assaulted during a tour and the keys & fobs were stolen.

You can't fight this type of crime by having a security guard in every area of every building. The issue is rooted in that the thieves and squatters know that they will get away with it. The criminals became bolder and even if confronted by a security guard, they have no more power than your average citizen has. They can just observe and take notes.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by EricE on Friday December 17, 2021 @10:40PM (#29601378)
Bah - SF DA's will not prosecute anything so it wouldn't matter if the buildings had doormen or not.

I'm not sure why it's so hard to for people to understand when you don't prosecute all crime, crime starts to bubble up and grow rampant but here you go. None of this is a surprise to anyone paying the least bit of attention to what has been going on in CA for a long time now. We are seeing in real time the effects of this grand experiment - how many people's lives and livelihoods have to be destroyed before CA residents start demanding real accountability?

I'm not holding my breath. Just stay in CA. Do not leave and then start to shit up other states with your batshit crazy politics too.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by simmanian on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:36PM (#29597295)
Is there an article I can read to understand the reasoning behind not booking anyone for non-violent crime? I'm looking to understand the nuances of the issue instead of taking a political side.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by dfxm12 on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:02PM (#29597637)
The pandemic closed and limited a lot of civic services, including courts, to where there was no room/time to process everything. This meant things had to be prioritized and usually it is violent crime that takes precedence. Things that boil down to non-violent he said, she said situations aren't worth the time in that situation. Before looking deeper into this topic, I think that needs to be understood. It's not as much a political policy with sides as it is a response to a pandemic.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by jfrunyon on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:59PM (#29597601)
Because they're not a threat to society, have not been determined to be guilty, and throwing people in jail (only to bond out anyway a couple days later, in most cases - funneling more money to bondsmen) is a great way to (a) spread a pandemic and (b) waste money giving them what they want (shelter, food, healthcare, etc.)?
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by caddemon on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:10PM (#29597735)
A dude swiping some snacks from Target I can understand, but people that break into private residences are definitely a threat to society. It is easy for that to escalate into a violent encounter and it makes people feel legitimately unsafe living in the city.
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Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by dang on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:54PM (#29598220)
Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by caddemon on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:34PM (#29597984)
It's not a hotel, it's some sort of corporate subletting situation. These people broke into an apartment unit.

>7% of home burglaries resulted in a violent encounter. Given that only ~27% of the time someone was even home that's a pretty big risk when someone indeed happens to be home: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf

Did you seriously just compare people being uncomfortable around black people with people being uncomfortable that their residence may be broken into??? "Legitimately" was the key word there.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by kmlx on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:02PM (#29597641)
> Because they're not a threat to society

how are they not a threat to society?

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by stjohnswarts on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:31PM (#29600979)
A lot of people have gotten soft on petty (and misdemeanor) non violent crimes and assume everyone is a criminal with a heart of gold "just trying to make it out there". I have been very poor before and living out of my car, I never stole one thing or broke into and squatted in any houses. If I had I would not have soiled the place up and taken stuff on my way out. I was raised with better morals than that. If I were a Californian I would be tired of the excuses the far left come up with to excuse petty crimes and lawlessness. I think it will come full circle in the next few years though as the crooks get bolder with the breakins and flash mob robberies.
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Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by kmlx on Friday December 17, 2021 @08:46PM (#29600695)
> How are they a threat to society?

i thought you would offer a different take on these things. not answer with a question.

> We started getting reports from neighbors or the on-site management that are our guests are dealing drugs out of our units.

> Our lockboxes were getting broken into, keys taken and people have been living there for several days and in some cases weeks

> they would start packing up their car with our appliances

in civilised societies these kinds of actions would be considered extremely damaging to the fibre of the neighbourhood. people would complain to their elected official if the police refused to intervene. and if the elected official refused to act then he would be recalled.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by azinman2 on Friday December 17, 2021 @06:24PM (#29599559)
Sorry, what makes them scummy? Because they want random squatters who are stealing stuff and not paying, while dealing drugs to not be in their accommodations that they created?

This kind of comment is exactly why “we can’t have nice things” when low-life’s are always defended, while those of us who actually meaningfully contribute to society are burdened to pick up the pieces and put up with illegal behavior.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by pbalau on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:00PM (#29597618)
Maybe the pandemic?
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by bsder on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:42PM (#29598692)
Or, you could, like, lower the rent so someone is willing to live there?

But, see, your financing would require you to cough up cash if the basis changes. And everything related to housing has become a Ponzi scheme to extract money from the people trying to simply find somewhere to live.

In this case, you have chosen to prefer to leave the rent high and let squatters break into your units rather than drop the rent and have residents.

I believe we refer to this as "the hand of the free market".

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by TheSocialAndrew on Friday December 17, 2021 @05:24PM (#29599108)
Short-term housing is different, if you lower rates below a certain threshold you are competing with local motels but you are offering a residential space governed by a different set of laws.

In other words, low-cost short-term housing attracts people that can book a stay for one month that will continue to occupy the space and stop paying until the eviction is processed. Eviction is a 3 to 6 month process in most counties in California, and it typically costs $10k-$15k. That was before the pandemic, evictions were completely suspended since.

Short-term housing / corporate housing does not require proof of income, credit check, etc. That would create a barrier of entry that would deter the majority of the clients; they would flock to the first available Airbnb. These travelers are typically staying for a couple of months and don't want to go through the hassle of lease approvals, agreements, credit checks, etc. Many of them are foreign and unable to provide the documentation necessary for a typical lease agreement.

You do make a valid point, however. Rent should be driven down as the market dictates.

For long-term rentals (your typical 1 or 2 year lease agreement with the building) there is another reason why rent does not drop significantly: most of the large rental buildings are owned by banks. There are clauses where if the rent per unit drops under a certain amount, the interest rates increase. There are several other clauses that disincentivize rent decreases. In addition, not every investor in a real estate investment trust has the same terms. When things go south (rent drops, operating costs increase, rate of evictions increases), investors that hold a fraction of the REIT will be the ones taking that loss, while institutional investors that provided the majority of the loan are protected. Thus it's in the interest of the more powerful investors or lenders to keep the rent where it is, and let the smaller investors take the loss.

We as property managers, whether long term or short term, can only fluctuate the rent within a certain margin. It's easy to oversimplify as "why can't you just drop the price", but there are bigger players that hold the cards, and they decide what the rent is, and if units are to remain vacant, who will be taking that loss. And it's the new guy that just entered an REIT with a mere $100k.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by pvarangot on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:02PM (#29597643)
Did you try lowering rent? Because I moved out a similar place mostly because they wouldn't lower rent and everything else got cheaper.
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Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by dang on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:51PM (#29598191)
Flamewar comments like this will get you banned on HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. No more of this, please. If you'd review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

Edit: you've unfortunately been doing this a lot with this account already. I don't want to ban you, but we need you to fix this if you want to keep commenting here.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by downWidOutaFite on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:01PM (#29598298)
Would the comment have been ok if i removed the "scum" part?
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by dang on Friday December 17, 2021 @05:01PM (#29598893)
Certainly a lot better, but even without that the comment is making a pretty big and provocative claim without any substance to back it up.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by subsubzero on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:12PM (#29596934)
Umm, no they are under instructions directly from Chesa Boudin, He initiated a reduction of pretrial incarceration and reduction of cash bail. His DA office is only trying ~50% of crimes compared to other major cities where the percent is 80-90%. In addition he is facing a recall this coming June.

Info about Chesa Boudin - https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Chesa-Boudin-San-Fra...

recall - https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/exclusive-sf-district-...

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by jeremysalwen on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:47PM (#29597437)
You claim: "they are under instructions directly from Chesa Boudin"

Article you linked says: Absolutely nothing to support this

You claim: "His DA office is only trying ~50% of crimes compared to other major cities"

Article you linked says: The charging rate was completely unchanged when Boudin became DA.

If you are going to make an outrageous claim that "they are under instructions directly from Chesa Boudin" you have to provide evidence that this is true, otherwise it will appear to be a lie.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by subsubzero on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:10PM (#29597736)
Did you actually read the article I linked? Property crime has increased dramatically under Boudin in SF. Here you go(murders also increased as well but not as dramatically):

2018 - 10,058 property crimes

2019 - 9,404 property crimes

Boudin Elected

2020 - 13,632 property crimes 44% increase

2021 - 6,180 property crimes (half year of stats only)

Boudin has initiated a catch and release for non-felony crimes which means the police arrest someone for breaking into a apartment and they are on the streets the next day due to no cash bail. Charging rates are extremely low(from 2018-2019) as the previous SF DA George Gascon initiated the same policies as Boudin and went to LA as DA and he(gascon) is also being recalled.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by jeremysalwen on Friday December 17, 2021 @06:38PM (#29599660)
The question is whether "[the police] are under instructions directly from Chesa Boudin [not to arrest people for property crime]" as you claimed. This claim appears to be a lie, the article you linked provides no supporting evidence, and your followup comment as well provides no supporting evidence.

When pressed on this point, you are relying on deflection to other criticisms you have of Boudin. Eliminating cash bail is in no way, shape, or form a direct instruction to not arrest property criminals.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by downWidOutaFite on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:49PM (#29597462)
> under instructions directly from Chesa Boudin

That is not the chain of command. They're completely separate bureaucracies.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by Spooky23 on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:00PM (#29597617)
District Attorneys wield a ton of power. ADAs get marching orders, and cops act based on what the ADAs want to prosecute.

If they want public intoxication collars, all of the sudden they will appear. Anytime someone tells you the DA is some bystander, laugh.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by downWidOutaFite on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:32PM (#29597959)
Cops act on what their police chief and union tell them to do.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by joshuamorton on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:22PM (#29597108)
Neither of those policies affect whether or not the police make an arrest.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by astrange on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:22PM (#29597090)
A notable part of SFPD history is during the 70s when they went on strike over a pay raise, started arresting citizens who looked at them funny on the picket line, sent threats on the mayor’s life and set off a bomb at his house.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by cbHXBY1D on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:41PM (#29598072)
One of my family members is a DA and we were talking about this and they were bragging that, yes, cops and DAs are doing this because of Boudin and George Floyd protests. They were happy because in their opinion it was working.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by gotoeleven on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:04PM (#29596800)
If you're a cop, why do your job if the people are just going to be released with no consequences? Police can't do anything if the DA refuses to prosecute.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by woodruffw on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:14PM (#29596967)
Because they're paid by taxpayers to do their job. And to be clear: their job is to make arrests and allow the rest of the justice system to do its job, which is (1) to determine the feasibility of going to court, and then (2) to determine the innocence or guilt of the arrested party in a public trial of peers.

Police abstention because other parts of the justice system refuse to play by their (cruel) rules is revanchism, nothing more or less.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by noah_buddy on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:26PM (#29597167)
Police abstention because other parts of the justice system are non-functional is, beyond any moral or ethical concerns, a certainty.

Every time a police officer arrests someone they're risking life and limb. Whether you like cops or not, you've got to see that aspect of it. Why would you take that risk when you know the system is being operated so that there is literally no difference between if you make the arrest or not?

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by majormajor on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:24PM (#29597883)
> Why would you take that risk when you know the system is being operated so that there is literally no difference between if you make the arrest or not?

The ability of police to forecast complex systems so accurately is astonishing.

The change being blamed for 2020/2021 elsewhere in this thread is "catch and release without cash bail." It's noted that there's been a 50% charge rate for a while on things as well. So if the police make that arrest, and that 50% charge rate held, half the time there's going to be a charge filed and regardless of if the person was held in jail or has to be brought back, that's still not "literally no difference."

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by astrange on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:42PM (#29597371)
Do people know Chesa is the DA for San Francisco, a 7x7 square mile city, only? You can't blame anything to do with the entire bay area on him.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by woodruffw on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:08PM (#29597706)
Because they’re paid to and because, again, it is just not their job to evaluate or police based on how the rest of the justice system functions.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by long_time_gone on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:13PM (#29596953)
Because it is your job? Plenty of people deal with managers who don't heed their advice, they don't get to opt-out of working.

Even if a DA refuses to prosecute anyone, police could also still work to prevent crime in the first place, no?

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by nradov on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:28PM (#29597198)
The other option is to either take early retirement, or quit and go work somewhere else. As many SFPD officers have done.

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/06/24/san-francisco-g...

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by ransom1538 on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:18PM (#29597027)
"Because it is your job?"

Imagine I worked at a pizza shop and was getting $10 per hour to make pizzas. Every pizza I make my boss throws into the dumpster. My boss refuses to talk with me. The boss publicly tweets: he doesn't believe in pizza. This goes on for 12 weeks. It gets pretty hard to go to work and make pizzas.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by long_time_gone on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:27PM (#29597188)
==$10 per hour==

Is that really comparable to a police office in SFPD? "San Francisco offers excellent benefits and the current starting salary is $92,560 per year. After seven years of service, a Police Officer may earn up to $139,152 per year. You will receive comprehensive training, at your full starting salary." [1]

==This goes on for 12 weeks==

This seems like hyperbole. Has nobody been prosecuted in San Francisco for 12 weeks? Does a prosecution after-the-fact stop a crime from happening?

[1] https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/your-sfpd/careers/sworn-j...

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by ransom1538 on Friday December 17, 2021 @07:37PM (#29600165)
HUD defined “Low Income Limits” in San Francisco as $82,200 for an individual and $117,400 for a family of four. So you are a little above poverty. I think $10 an hour works.

"This goes on for 12 weeks" i just make up some time not related ;)

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by long_time_gone on Monday December 20, 2021 @09:43AM (#29625398)
==I think $10 an hour works.==

$10/hr is the equivalent to $20k a year. SFPD officers make 4-6X that number. Then we can add the health benefits and pension contributions that your "Low Income Limits" don't measure. Not to mention the slight of hand where you turned it into a family of 4 to make the math look better.

==i just make up some time not related=

Another made up number. Making up numbers from thin air doesn't create a legitimate comparison for actual data.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by muststopmyths on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:22PM (#29597093)
Well you should quit that job in that case.

Unless you are really attached to those sweet pensions, overtime and other union perks that your "pizza shop" job provides. At taxpayer cost.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by Clubber on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:40PM (#29598056)
Don't forget qualified immunity and lost lawsuits created by your own doing don't come out of your budget or pension.

I think most of this can be fixed with a little accountability; the same everyone else is subject to.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by jfrunyon on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:01PM (#29597630)
Personally, I'd do the same thing as the cops if I were in the situation you describe: do nothing and rake in the moolah, and if anyone has a problem with that, pretend it's someone else's fault.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by jonathankoren on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:40PM (#29597353)
Why do you care about what happens to the pizzas? You’re getting paid the same.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by olivermarks on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:23PM (#29597129)
The SFPD were defunded, staff left in droves due to a cargo culting 'social democrat' political climate that was openly hostile to them. Cops are one wrong move away from being in jail themselves in an increasingly lawless bay area environment. This has reached crisis level and the subtleties of community policing vs law enforcement, and restorative justice experiments have been blown to smithereens by ham fisted, tone deaf ideologues such as DA Boudin. It will take decades to recover from this and is a societal disaster IMO, especially those who are most vulnerable.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by yardie on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:45PM (#29597402)
> The SFPD were defunded, staff left in droves

You got a citation on this? Because even my city is "defunding the police" because of a budget shortage. And defunding other city services for the same reason. Police leaving in droves, according to Fox News turned out to be 90% retirement.

> Cops are one wrong move away from being in jail themselves

Okay, Tucker Carlson, sure ;-)

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by olivermarks on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:51PM (#29598794)
https://twitter.com/LondonBreed/status/1471918546812690434 Mayor Breed just declared a state of emergency in the Tenderloin regarding the open drug scene there.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by long_time_gone on Friday December 17, 2021 @07:19PM (#29600019)
This is still not the "de-funding" you promised us.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by olivermarks on Friday December 17, 2021 @07:37PM (#29600160)
I didn't 'promise' anything, what do you mean? Who is 'us'?

Regarding defunding, a very quick google search will give you the information you're looking for assuming you are in the USA.

Separately there has been attrition at the SFPD due to people taking early retirement or moving to easier policing jobs elsewhere.

https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-budget-announcement-defun...

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by long_time_gone on Monday December 20, 2021 @09:50AM (#29625494)
Your first comment:

==The SFPD were defunded==

You have not provided any evidence of this claim, attrition is not "de-funding".

I appreciate the link for the article on a proposed budget. I did some google searching (as you suggested) and found some more updated information. The budget has gone up 50% over 10 years, hardly de-funded.

"For the proposed 2021-22 budget, the San Francisco Police Department’s allocation will decrease by $6 million, from about $668 million to $661 million. Those cuts can nearly all be attributed to decreased demand for police at the airport. However, in the following fiscal year, the city projects the police budget will increase once again to $689 million. That’s close to the police budget’s all-time high of $692 million in FY 2019-20. By way of comparison, in FY 2010-11, the police budget weighed in at $445 million."

https://www.sfweekly.com/news/is-san-francisco-re-funding-th...

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by yardie on Saturday December 18, 2021 @09:27AM (#29604683)
"The mayor also highlighted other changes in 2020-21 and 2021-22 budgets, designed to deal with a $1.5 billion shortfall amid the ongoing coronavirus pandemic."
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by long_time_gone on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:31PM (#29597242)
==The SFPD were defunded==

Citation please. How much money was taken away and where was it put?

==especially those who are most vulnerable.==

Am I to believe that the staff who fled the department because they disagreed with the politics are now deeply concerned about the "most vulnerable"? Seems the best way to help them would be to focus away from after-the-fact prosecution and instead on community outreach.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by olivermarks on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:19PM (#29598484)
not hard to find information online about this https://www.audacy.com/kcbsradio/news/local/san-francisco-po...

etc etc

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by long_time_gone on Friday December 17, 2021 @07:01PM (#29599858)
That articles is about staffing shortages because people retired, not about "de-funding".
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by Clubber on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:42PM (#29598078)
>Cops are one wrong move away from being in jail themselves

So what, I'm one wrong move away from being in jail. Everyone is. That's how law works.

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by olivermarks on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:49PM (#29598768)
unless the DA only decides to prosecute cases he feels are important, as is the case with Boudin

https://www.safersfwithoutboudin.com

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by jonathankoren on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:44PM (#29597395)
> The SFPD were defunded, staff left in droves due to a cargo culting 'social democrat' political climate that was openly hostile to them.

Citation needed.

Seriously. NO ONE has been defunded anywhere in the country.

https://www.sfweekly.com/news/is-san-francisco-re-funding-th...

Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by muststopmyths on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:10PM (#29596900)
Because punishment is not in their purview ?
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by Redoubts on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:12PM (#29596936)
They could at least do it so they could hammer the news with soundbites for the next election: Police took N reports about crime, showing that set stats are undercounting by M; Police arrested X for QoL crimes, but released all but Y because the DA doesn't care about you, etc...
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by wonnage on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:03PM (#29597647)
Why fight fires when people keep setting them anyway? Firefighters can't do anything if people keep using their stoves.
Re:The Bay Area has become a large declining tech company by vmception on Friday December 17, 2021 @08:41PM (#29600649)
I try to tell people that California is not “a market based economy” right now

But honestly even that euphemism is an insult to state capital systems that incorporate marxist ideology, as those systems tax lower and have better private property assurances