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Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by acdha on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:52AM (#29566689)
> This is just life, forever. Totally unprecedented. You will get a vaccination every 6 months for the rest of your life or be totally excluded from all civil rights.

“all civil rights” meaning you have full civil rights but can't force a private company to give you a job when you refuse to follow safety rules? Especially in a country where employers pay for healthcare it doesn't seem unreasonable to require a safe, easy, and highly effective means of avoiding very expensive treatments.

This is also far from unprecedented. I've worked at jobs which required other vaccinations, schools all around the country require a ton of vaccinations, and the people who don't want to do that for whatever reason have always had the option of homeschooling, finding another job, etc. If this is such an important issue to you, take responsibility for the consequences of your choice — there's certainly a long tradition of people accepting that as a cost of their religious decisions.

Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by nsxwolf on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:54AM (#29566723)
If we eventually define "civil rights" to mean "you have the right to stay inside your home and order everything on Amazon", we have a serious problem. That's where this is going. It goes way beyond the decisions of an individual company.

Regarding the status quo: Yes, mandates exist. The school example is a piece of paper you turn into the school office during enrollment and no one ever thinks about it again. It's not a status tracked in real time, apps don't have to be presented to enter buildings. And in most cases, people can file for exemptions if it really matters to them.

Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by oneoff786 on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:03AM (#29566861)
If nobody wants you around because you refuse to follow safety rules then sure, you’re gonna have a bad time.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by k8si on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:12AM (#29566986)
It seems like the vax every 6 months is a worst-ish case scenario (worst case being, some mutation is like 100% vax resistant, no one can figure it out, and a lot more people die). Well, one is also supposed to get a dental cleaning every 6 months. The nice thing about the vax is, jab takes 2 seconds and no one bugs you about flossing. I don't see why this would be such a chore.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by kevinventullo on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @11:20AM (#29568003)
A one-time paper submission with medical and religious exemptions is precisely what Google is doing.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by srean on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:04AM (#29566890)
Have you been this upset all this while at the fact that international students have been required to take a bunch of different vaccines as a prerequisite for admission in US colleges ? You may have been, I don't know.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by orang2tang on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:11AM (#29566978)
Which one of those vaccines requires 3 shots every year, and wait, you can still get it?
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by astura on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:20AM (#29567087)
In fact, in my state all students, international or not, are required tot take a bunch of different vaccines before they are allowed to attend classes.

My friend started college in his late 30s and didn't have access to his childhood immunizations since it was so long ago. He had to get a blood test showing immunity before he could attend class.

Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by srean on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:22AM (#29567120)
For transmissible diseases that's an excellent call.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by orang2tang on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:09AM (#29566959)
You're forgetting that a majority of the companies implementing these policies are doing so at the behest of the federal government. You think Google doesn't do business with the US government, who does business with drug manufacturers? Private company? on PAPER, sure...

Government mandating private business to inject their workers every 6 months to save face (and $$$) for the "vaccine" manufacturers is fascist and anti-human. Thankfully the over-arching Biden mandate probably won't go anywhere, but large companies such as Google are doing this as a political and financial move. NOT FOR HEALTH

When politics and money make it necessary for companies to coerce people into injections every 6 months, a constantly shifting definition of "vaccinated", then things should be re-evaluated. And if you believe in this garbage you should honestly re-evaluate your concept of liberty.

Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by k8si on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:15AM (#29567033)
Most of my co-workers who have kids will not go back to our office unless our company enforces a vaccine mandate. So anecdotally, I can say that at least some workers at some companies are also putting pressure on to implement vaccine mandates.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by solididiot on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:52AM (#29566688)
We should have thought about that when we were invading and toppling every single ecosystem out there. WHO and others were warning time and again but nothing changed. We (as a civilisation) brought this to ourselves and we have to weather it out as best as we can. So far science/vaccines/meds are the best bet. If they fcuk it up (say an mRNA batch goes really bad) then all hell will break loose. Still mandatory vaccination and free dissemination of vaccines to poor countries is the only visible way out right now.

But if this seems so difficult I wonder how battling climate change will seem to us.

Definitely interesting times. Albeit dark.

Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by titzer on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:00AM (#29566799)
Let's see how far you get walking around completely naked. My guess is about 2 to 3 city blocks. Your civil rights have always been constrained to protect both the safety and sensibilities of those around you. It's the cost of an increasingly crowded planet full of people who also have rights.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by refurb on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:10AM (#29566966)
How ironic. It’s actually entirely legal and not uncommon to see entirely naked people in SF.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by jandrewrogers on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:59AM (#29567781)
You may need to update your priors. In Seattle, for example, going about your business naked in the city is not only legal, but determined to be a Constitutionally protected civil right by the courts decades ago. (And as is very evident, some people choose to exercise that right.)
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by kkjjkgjjgg on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:02AM (#29566841)
In my country, there are places where everybody goes naked all the time. Not sure if people live their all year round, or if it is only for holidays.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by titzer on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:03AM (#29566866)
Those places are not, for example, shopping malls.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by kkjjkgjjgg on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:06AM (#29566924)
Pretty sure they have shops there, as well. However, the people stocking the shops probably put on some clothes when they need to venture outside to get supplies.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by titzer on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:21AM (#29567111)
Well I have never witnessed a mythical naked shopping mall, just some outdoor parks and gardens out away from most other people where only the clued-in would go. It is not ok to go out naked in public!
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by kkjjkgjjgg on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @12:40PM (#29569119)
The ones I mean are more like camp sites. But I haven't been there myself. Isn't "nudist camp" also a thing in the US?
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by titzer on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @02:15PM (#29570348)
My reference for nudism is various parts of the Isar and Englisch Garten in Munich. In the US, nudist sites aren't really a thing, certainly not in any major city.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by kkjjkgjjgg on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @05:46PM (#29572560)
I know the Englische Garten. You can't go shopping in the nude there. I was talking about nudist camps. Afaik in the former socialist east Germany, nudist culture was actually a kind of rebellion against the government.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by ryanackley on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:05AM (#29566895)
Don't agree and I feel like the hyperbole I see by people on both sides of "political" issues is out of hand. Yes, this issue has become political even though it shouldn't be.

Maybe the shortage of competent developers will end one day but until then, there is a very competitive labor market for all technical people not just developers. In this market, workers are not required to come into an office therefore vaccination is not an issue.

If they act on the threat, it's at their own peril and other businesses will gain. It's not the end of civil rights though.

Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by physicsguy on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:57AM (#29566756)
> You will get a vaccination every 6 months for the rest of your life or be totally excluded from all civil rights.

This is like the free speech debate. You have the right to say whatever you like. Other people don't have to put up with it by listening to you though. Just as if you don't get a vaccine, other people won't want to work with you.

Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by refurb on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:12AM (#29566983)
Exactly! Google loves free speech, but hey if you say the wrong thing you’re fired, but that doesn’t mean we don’t support free speech!
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by CabSauce on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:46AM (#29566614)
What about the rights of a private (in the sense of government) company to make their own decisions?
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by nsxwolf on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:52AM (#29566696)
I don't believe in the rights of private companies to do just anything they want to workers. Most people don't - look at the popularity of indoor smoking bans. Most also agree a private business shouldn't be allowed to deny employment or service based on race. There are many, many such examples.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by CabSauce on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:55AM (#29566739)
Are you really claiming an indoor smoking ban is a counter example to a vaccine mandiate? That's some interesting logic.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by Chris2048 on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @02:38PM (#29570624)
It was a counter to the argument of corporate autonomy. The "counter example" you talk about is about the power of government.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by Radim on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:06AM (#29566925)
Isn't this the same argument as "The government is not allowed to censor free speech – but nothing stops it from colluding with / coercing private companies to do its dirty job"?

It is puzzling that such "bypass of privacy / speech rights" was ferociously resisted by the some of same people who now applaud the "bypass of medical / physical integrity rights". Hey look, it's not us doing the violence and suspending basic human rights – it's the private companies!

I guess people need to see how this ugly pattern plays out in full, again. I anticipate a lot of future "How could they let this happen?" and "Nobody could have foreseen this!" as well as the sad classic, "Is there no one left to stand up for me?".

Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by barney54 on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:53AM (#29566708)
Google is free to set their rules and we are free to complain about them.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by postsantum on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:22AM (#29567113)
Google is overstepping their bounds the same way Nasim Aghdam overstepped bounds of complaining about Google
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by epistasis on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:49AM (#29566653)
There is no civil right to work at Google...
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by solididiot on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:58AM (#29566780)
I may sound like a sucker/fanboy/looser but having tried twice to enter and having failed both times I really cannot imagine giving up a role in Google because of vaccination. It just sounds like giving up so much for so little (a cause). I mean I was literally crying the first time around.

Anyway. Maybe in US/SV good jobs come easier (I'm in 2nd grade EU country) and thus you can see things clearer. Dunno

Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by Chris2048 on Thursday December 16, 2021 @08:40AM (#29577956)
and yet unfair dismissal is a thing.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by chrisseaton on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:54AM (#29566726)
> be totally excluded from all civil rights

You don't have a civil right to employment at Google.

Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by NikolaeVarius on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:55AM (#29566740)
You are free to not work at Google, and you are free to not take part in society if you dont wish to participate in the societal contract.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by refurb on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:14AM (#29567025)
“Social contract” is one of those squishy cop outs that just means “do what we say even if you don’t want to because it’s for a greater good”.

It’s not a useful tool for an argument because anything can fall under that.

“Stop taking drugs because you’re harming society. You’re still free to take them though, you’ll just be put in jail. But it’s your choice.”

Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by jaquer_1 on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:57AM (#29566773)
Then dismantle unions, because people are free to go anywhere else
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by NikolaeVarius on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:00AM (#29566812)
Um OK? Why not?
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by cletus on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:02AM (#29566851)
> Totally unprecedented

Au contraire [1]. For example:

> During the Revolutionary War, by contrast, George Washington immunized his troops against smallpox even against their will.

[1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-long-history-of-vaccine-man...

Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by postsantum on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:06AM (#29566919)
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a man trying to press "Cancel Immunity+ subscription" button — forever.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by refurb on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:05AM (#29566901)
Reminds me of that scene from the movie The Outlaw Jose Wales:

- We got him now. We'll get these two first, then the others.

- What others? Wales and the kid are the last ones.

- Oh, no. Texas is full of rebels.

- Lots of work to do down in Texas.

- We get Josey Wales and it ends.

- Doing right ain't got no end.

Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by goodoldneon on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:58AM (#29566777)
Stop politicizing public health.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by kkjjkgjjgg on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:08AM (#29566949)
Ok that is funny in many ways.
Re:Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eve... by astura on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @10:05AM (#29566897)
Oh, FFS, vaccine mandates are not "totally unprecedented."

They are, in fact, extremely common. The first vaccine mandate in the US was in 1809.

Complain if you want, but don't base your complaints on blatant falsehoods.