Meh, my Ryzen laptop, while not M1 level, handles performance, heat and battery just fine for my needs, considering it costs well under half the price of an equivalent M1, and, as a major necessity for me, is easier to repair/upgrade but most importantly, it runs both Windows and Linux plus all X86 binaries I could ever want natively and I have full control over it (on Linux at least), instead of the manufacturer dictating what I'm allowed to run on it.

M1s are great but they aren't the magic silver bullet that solves everyone's problems, as I have no use for benchmark topping chips that can't run the SW I use. <shrug>

*if replaced every year ... or a 900 usd computer if replaced every 3 years.

many

I don't see many old macs around, because they're harder and more expensive to repair.

> if replaced every year

that's a big if.

The assumption is that Pro market will drive general adoption.

It's a false premise.

Pro market, especially Apple Pro market, it's predictive of exactly nothing.

Just anecdata, but from walking through German trains, I disagree. I still see non-Retina MacBook Airs on some trays, for example, last sold in 2015.

Some Mac models are clearly more reliable and maintainable than others, see the butterfly keyboard fiasco. But I think companies should be judged by their better products, not the duds.

Hah. It is actually. Apple releases the MacBook Air... what does the PC market do in lock step? Try to copy it. We can thank Apple for insisting on SSDs in the laptop for all our PC laptops having them. When Apple moves industries follow. That won't be like that forever but it is currently.

Apple removed CD drives and Ethernet ports: everyone does.

Apple removes HDMI, many do.

Apple removes headphone jack from phones: everyone mocks, the follows.

I find that hard to believe. You're claiming plastic race-to-the-bottom laptop pc makers are building machines that last as long as all aluminium premium Macs? Fat chance.

Re the software issue, yeah, that's a pain. I do plan on putting Linux on it when I replace it with another Mac laptop, probably a M1. But that just furthers my point that Apple makes the best, longest lasting hardware.

But to each their own.

I'm not saying that, at all.

I am saying that people keep reasonably priced hardware for longer than Mac owners because they don't have money to waste and can actually repair and upgrade them for cheap.

Therefore I am more comfortable buying something that, while not the fastest in the world at topping benchmarks, is plenty fast enough (faster than anything Apple ever made pre-M1 which many users still use just fine), fits my needs better, is easier to repair/upgrade, and as an added bonus, is significantly cheaper than an M1, so I can take the difference in money I would have spent on an M1 and buying into the Apple ecosystem and put it into Apple stock and I'd be even better off in the long run :)) Everybody wins.

This is solved by the M1, that’s all I say. Your laptop is still much more expensive than a significantly better desktop PC.

Online reviews show multiple laptops with near full-day battery life (>8h) exist if you do some googling, so that's almost a non-issue ATM if that's your main concern.

>Your laptop is still much more expensive than a significantly better desktop PC.

Of course it is, but so what? I need a laptop, not a desktop.

My sister bought a Lenovo thinkbook with a Ryzen 7, 16 GB of RAM (upgradable up to 32) for € 729

My 3D artist friend an Asus ROG 14 with an NVidia GPU and 32GB of RAM for € 1.780 and he's using it to render complex scenes.

Does the increase in performance justify the ridiculous price?

It doesn't, in my opinion.

Also, Apple doesn't want to be a mainstream company, their market is never gonna be huge, premium prices are only justifiable if the product is somewhat exclusive.

Not to mention the unusable trackpad and keyboard, and the lack of video camera. Or even the fact that this machine gets super hot and loud, while an air doesn't even have fans.

M1 Macs can't do what that laptops does.

Simple as that.

People are not stupid, that might surprise you, but people use their money for the best, usually.

> Not to mention the unusable trackpad and keyboard

Have you ever heard of a device called "mouse"?

My friend uses another device entirely, it's called "WACOM CINTIQ PRO TOUCH 32"

because he cares about eronomics in his job, specific to his job, he doesn't need to show off with his friends.

> and the lack of video camera

are you familiar with the concept of a working machine?

> Or even the fact that this machine gets super hot and loud

have you ever thought that people don't care about it, because they are working and their job is not making less noise possible?

that's a feature only if your job requires absolute silence, rendering at X minutes per frame is not one of them.

People just don't care.

It's like saying that your washing machine is noisy.

Do you stare at it while it washes your underwear?

And vice versa. Try using it for hours just on battery.

>Have you ever heard of a device called "mouse"?

Then you can't use it on your lap, need a bigger desk, etc.

>are you familiar with the concept of a working machine?

Are you familiar with the concept of online meetings ? Or do you work as a hermit ?

>because they are working and their job is not making less noise possible?

Not to mention audio people that do require that, but I'm sure your coworkers wouldn't appreciate the fan noise blasting each time you unmute

>Do you stare at it while it washes your underwear?

Do you leave the room when using your computer ?

Dell XPS and HP Elitebooks often meet or exceed the price of comparable MacBooks.

How many times people said that the Air is the "entry level" "low budget" Mac?

Which one is true?

Is it a luxury product or an entry level one?

I can quote many comments saying both things in the same thread.

Anyway, no company pays Lenovo full price and their discount policies are far more aggressive than Apple's.

There's a reason: Apple doesn't undersell, they don't care.

Lenovo, Dell, HP make volumes, they don't care to be a luxury brand.

The X1 carbon, paid full price, is for people who have money to waste.

Obviously: Both.

The absolute "entry" point is the Mac mini.

The MacBook Air a low spec "luxury" quality device for people who want a well built laptop (that has decent battery life and a good screen) but do not have heavy demands on performance.

If your argument is discounts then I don't support that pricing model (unpredictable frenetic oscillation) anyway.

And, yah, if you're a company you get a flat rate discount based on volume with Apple products.

I have a MacBook from 2011 that works perfectly well (almost as good as the day I got it, save the battery and a few bits of corrosion on the edge of the front where your palms rest). I’ve definitely cycled through other laptops much faster than that.

I spent on them a fortune in total, and they broke, pathetically.

I tried, believe me.

Mac HW quality is just another myth.

Luxury is never cheap.

An M1 can't be both entry level and better than high end models at the same price tag, at the same time (that's what they say).

They are not in fact.

Please leave Ferrari alone, they actually make cars that last for decades.

Apple doesn't.

You’re having an emotional reaction to a brand and a product, and this is not ideal.

I struggle to deal with people who are emotional about brands, both love and hate because I find that there’s no room for objectivity or discussion. There are circumstances where interacting with a brand can be wholly toxic (Oracle) or largely good (Linux, if you can call it a brand). But when you only respond in an emotional way it prevents an intellectually curious discussion.

Stop thinking of these as “Apple” computers and instead look at them as.. computers.

It makes the trade offs a lot more obvious when you remove the emotive element.

> An M1 can't be both entry level and better than high end models at the same price tag, at the same time (that's what they say).

I have no idea what you’re referring to. Apple has some laptop models that are less expensive, I might even say cheaper, than others. That’s just comparing them relative to other Apple products though. The MacBook Air is cheaper than a MacBook Pro, that’s not the same thing as saying it’s objectively cheap relative to laptops generally. These are the entry level products in the MacBook product range.

You can get capabilities from even the low end M1 MacBooks that you can’t get from even very expensive notebooks from other manufacturers. You can get faster notebooks elsewhere, or lighter notebooks, or… actually no, you can’t get notebooks with better battery life anywhere else. However you can’t get the combination of lightness power and battery duration of even a low end M1 MacBook anywhere else at any price. That can absolutely make it better than more expensive models from other manufacturers in ways some people find very important.

Yes. Yes they can. Because that's their new entry model in the new line-up. And can be both entry level and better than high-end models from the previous line-up.

These are entry models for Apple products. So no sense comparing them with entry models for other products (which could be shoddy plastic netbooks for all those brands care)