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Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by mrsuprawsm on Friday December 10, 2021 @09:33AM (#29510267)
It's a bit of a sad sacrifice, though. Nothing (significant) has changed about the US's imperialism as a result of his disclosures, it's just mildly more acknowledged.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by lenkite on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:33AM (#29511047)
Most left journalists were dancing in joy when Assange got arrested. They never forgave him for exposing the Clinton emails and ensured he was heavily character assassinated over the next several years. He also became a victim of the #MeToo movement at its height. He was openly called evil/narcissist/etc in many "opinion" pieces.

All the other important stuff he revealed never got the level of attention it deserved.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by marcus_holmes on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:16AM (#29511625)
not only because of the left/right politics, but also because defending Assange as a "journalist" caused them grief. The definition of journalism is at stake: if someone who just posts to the internet is a journalist and can defend their actions as necessary for the operation of a free press, then that includes bloggers[0] and all sorts of riff-raff.

Craig Murray's trial had a similar outcome: he's not a "proper" journalist because he doesn't work for a media/newspaper company. And the judge gave an opinion that bloggers should get tougher sentences than journalists[1].

It'll come back to bite the journos, and some of them know this and are saying it. But most are keen to carve out special exemptions for themselves from laws that the rest of us have to follow.

[0] In journalism circles, "blogger" is an insult. Source: I used to run a newspaper.

[1] https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/06/the-mind-of-...

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by xanaxagoras on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:53AM (#29512106)
Your comment reminds me of CNN's special-in-their-own-minds status where laws are "different for the media." [0]

I agree that powerful media orgs see this as the definition of journalism at stake, and their assessment is close to self awareness in a way that falls comically short. The irony is the harder they fight the despicable internet bloggers the more credibility they lose - near zero at this point in my eyes. The media ideally is a group of citizens exercising their first amendment rights as a bulwark to government abuse; the media we've ended up today is a group of powerful entities aligned with the government. They are always on their best behavior to preserve their access to the latest carefully curated "leaks" and fat and happy in their position as lapdogs. Bloggers, citizen/independent journalists, etc. are the media, and what we call the media is at this point little more than the ministry of truth. Anyone whose worldview could consider Don Lemon a journalist and Glenn Greenwald a fringe internet blogger should be laughed out of whatever room they are in, I just can't take this position seriously.

[0] https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/787749893649600512

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by myohmy on Friday December 10, 2021 @01:20PM (#29513452)
Yeah this is why laws, and even constitutions don't matter at this point. Only the anointed CIA affiliated "papers of record" are given protection. Despite the beautifully clear language in the US constitution.

Just so you know, if you think this is new, its not. Communist speech has been deemed illegal, and upheld by the supreme court, since the McCarthy era. This is not presented as a political view on Communism vs Capitalism, just as a fact that the constitution doesn't matter.

For more recent events, I challenge you to find where a "curfew" on peaceful protests, or "free speech zones" appear in the constitution. Again, not an endorsement of the protest, merely pointing out that laws don't matter.

Also remember that the journalist that exposed the Panama papers mysteriously died in a freak car explosion. Very sad.

I'll take off my tinfoil hat now...

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by _jal on Friday December 10, 2021 @01:02PM (#29513219)
> They never forgave him for exposing the Clinton emails

The issue there was precisely how he was emphatically not acting as a journalist.

Journalists do not coordinate news releases with their preferred candidates.

Political operatives do.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by dpwm on Friday December 10, 2021 @01:12PM (#29513342)
> Journalists do not coordinate news releases with their preferred candidates.

No, they would never do anything like that:

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/article-on-joe-and-hunter-b...

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by cwkoss on Friday December 10, 2021 @01:48PM (#29513826)
I think this is a naive and unrealistic perspective. Journalists coordinate with their preferred candidates all the time to gain better access. They shouldn't but they do.

(And, whether wikileaks meaningfully coordinated with trump campaign is debatable)

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by boomboomsubban on Friday December 10, 2021 @08:09PM (#29517427)
>Journalists do not coordinate news releases with their preferred candidates

That's basically a press conference, which are both a mainstay of journalism and you'll see particularly well connected journalists leak what a press conference will be about before it happens.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by marcosdumay on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:40AM (#29511912)
That's how a well articulated propaganda campaign looks like.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by AnthonyMouse on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:08PM (#29512335)
That's what a poorly articulated propaganda campaign looks like.

The better ones you can't tell so easily.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by elif on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:41AM (#29511153)
Yep. 100% this.

After 2016, i went from getting "oh you radical crazy commie" looks wearing a wikileaks shirt to immediately "oh you're a republican, let me guess you listen to alex jones and joe rogan?"

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by alexvoda on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:09AM (#29511515)
I believe somewhere in here lies a fundamental problem with today's society. We have reached an absurd level of polarization. Any opinion you hold that is in contradiction with someone else's opinion, qualifies you for membership of the opposing camp.

We should really work on depolarisation.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by user743 on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:36AM (#29511863)
The establishment is the enemy, not each other.

Also, I'm not sure where this "keep friends and family separate from business" idealogy came from, but business is just organizing production. If we're not going to try to hold those keys with our friends and family, then elites will hold them for us.

Side note-no actual progress can come until there is sound money again.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by Jcowell on Saturday December 11, 2021 @07:18AM (#29520377)
This just seems like another polarization to me. Other people CAN be the enemy. Racist and White Supremacists are the enemy, especially to me. Now how we treat and decide to combat our enemies is a while other matter.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by TakuYam on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:20PM (#29512554)
> The establishment is the enemy, not each other.

The problem with the premise that the establishment is a lot like The Matrix. Some people are so hopelessly enamoured with the establishment that they will do whatever it takes to defend it.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by AnthonyMouse on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:30PM (#29512710)
> After 2016, i went from getting "oh you radical crazy commie" looks wearing a wikileaks shirt to immediately "oh you're a republican, let me guess you listen to alex jones and joe rogan?"

The flip side of this is that we're apparently focusing on the wrong things.

Assange was prosecuted under Trump, now he's being prosecuted under Biden. Who were we realistically supposed to vote for in order to make this stop? If this is the only front then we lost before there was even a vote.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by cwkoss on Friday December 10, 2021 @01:50PM (#29513869)
The US effectively has one party with two costumes.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by AnthonyMouse on Friday December 10, 2021 @02:01PM (#29514001)
That's not it. There are meaningful differences. Which party represents the oil industry? Which party represents Hollywood? It's not the same party.

The real problem is, which party represents the finance industry? Both of them. Which party is the party of small business? Neither of them. Strong antitrust enforcement? Reducing the scope of wasteful bureaucracy, as distinct from regulatory capture? It's not on the ballot.

How do we fix it? Maybe start here:

https://www.starvoting.us/

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by monocasa on Saturday December 11, 2021 @12:24PM (#29522566)
> Which party represents the oil industry?

https://theintercept.com/2016/10/10/clinton-fracking-theworl...

https://www.salon.com/2016/10/18/leaked-email-hillary-clinto...

It's both, just the voters don't get told that.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by pessimizer on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:21AM (#29511683)
Democratic-party affiliated journalists. Even left-of-center journalists. But the Clinton emails were an exposure of attacks against Sanders.

It's so bizarre that Glenn Beck's view of the world, making Wall Street Iraq Warriors who ended welfare as we knew it and who put more black people in prison than anyone while deregulating everything into basically Lenin, ate up even the libertarian right.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by pitaj on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:33AM (#29511838)
> It's so bizarre that Glenn Beck's view of the world, making Wall Street Iraq Warriors who ended welfare as we knew it and who put more black people in prison than anyone while deregulating everything into basically Lenin, ate up even the libertarian right.

Wat. Is this GPT3 or something?

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by nebula8804 on Friday December 10, 2021 @04:03PM (#29515433)
Looking at his other comments, it seems like it. There is an email in his account. Maybe you should send off an email asking. :)
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by Lucasoato on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:26AM (#29511740)
What a different world we would be living in if Bernie Sanders had won the US presidential elections.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by ch4s3 on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:06PM (#29512294)
I'm not so sure a Sanders presidency with a Republican congress would have been super different. He promised to also crack down on immigration, impose tariffs, end trade deals, and pull out of Afghanistan. He is/was also very skeptical of longstanding alliances and NATO. With not power to legislate, he'd have likely done some similar things as an executive.

Would he have been as embarrassing and corrupt, probably not, but there more to an administration than all of that.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by varelse on Friday December 10, 2021 @01:15PM (#29513395)
He is a great demagogue but his Congressional record indicates he is not so good at dealmaking. I think he would have been a progressive Perot that got angry a lot but those tantrums would lead to great sound bites.

Or TLDR if you're not going to get good at making sausage stop applying for positions at the sausage factory.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by nebula8804 on Friday December 10, 2021 @04:08PM (#29515477)
There are a lot of things you can do at the executive level that recent administration don't have the guts to do. Declare a medical emergency on account of COVID-19 and bam, there is a provision in the laws that allows you to expand medicare to the entire population. That alone would guarantee re-election. Free all non-violent marijuana prisoners, Forgive student debt. That alone would be a boost to the economy as a generation saddled with debt would get a reset. There are more he could do by executive order that can bypass congress. He will be attacked, but so what? The population overwhelming wants these proposals anyway.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by varelse on Friday December 10, 2021 @05:16PM (#29516113)
I think you deeply underestimate the influence of the corporate media in influencing the opinions of the masses. But apparently America went through something like this right after the Civil War where everyone had an opinion on everything and all that led to was corporations amassing power for a half century.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by nebula8804 on Friday December 10, 2021 @06:44PM (#29516880)
That affects you when trying to get elected. I'd argue a strong candidate who takes no BS is something that the people are clamoring for. Trump fit that bill to an extant but he was an idiot and a bigot. He had a real opportunity to enact real change but he blew it.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by varelse on Friday December 10, 2021 @08:31PM (#29517553)
Sure I would love a truth-telling candidate. But no existing party machine will accept such a candidate and even if elected no existing party will work with such a candidate.

And in the unlikely event you create a genuine third party, the current two parties will drop all their differences to destroy that party.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by ch4s3 on Friday December 10, 2021 @01:56PM (#29513938)
> TLDR if you're not going to get good at making sausage stop applying for positions at the sausage factory.

This is 100% a perfect distillation of a great criticism of Sanders from the left and on merits.

I think it's often also undersold how often he's been terribly wrong about foreign policy in the past and how he almost never walks it back.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by jessaustin on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:03PM (#29512244)
I fear we'd just be in another JFK situation. We're only allowed so much representative government.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by maybelsyrup on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:20PM (#29512560)
100%. Sanders wouldn't have made it to his own inauguration. They would have never allowed it.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by AnthonyMouse on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:11PM (#29512395)
Why make him a martyr when they could have done the same to him as they did to Trump?
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by jessaustin on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:55PM (#29513111)
Well, sure, they would have tried the smears employed against Trump and, more relevantly, Corbyn. In fact, forget "would have", that was actually done. [0] I'm just not sure the accusations would have seemed important to voters. Trump's myriad misdeeds have been salient to public attention for decades. "Collaboration" with Russia may have been one of a few awful actions he hadn't actually attempted over his life, which is exactly why it was emphasized. The go-to war media criticisms of Sanders, e.g. "he thinks healthcare should be provided to all, even during a pandemic!" probably wouldn't have seemed so bad to normal humans. But sure, our enemies have a certain low cunning in addition to their complete control of popular media. They could have surprised us with their choice of smears.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/18/the-ri...

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by AnthonyMouse on Friday December 10, 2021 @01:30PM (#29513609)
"Supports single payer healthcare" is used against Sanders in the primary to instill fear in Democratic primary voters that he'll be too far to the left for moderates and then lose to a Republican. It wouldn't be effective, or attempted, if he was already the President.

They could easily have used the same style of attacks that were used against Trump. "Kids in cages" was the case under Obama, and Trump, and Biden, but we only heard about it under Trump.

They wouldn't have used the same issues because those are the issues you use against a Republican, but the same format works against anyone. Under Sanders there would have been huge concerns about the deficit. Any tax increase impacting the middle class would be condemned but the middle class would inherently have to pay more to have single payer healthcare, so you fight it with "tax increase bad" not "healthcare bad." Not having to pay health insurance premiums would either be ignored or condemned as a giveaway to employers.

They'd find some black families who support school vouchers to go on TV and accuse him of being a racist for supporting existing "racist public schools" and things along those lines.

The general idea is to be horrified to learn that things that have been happening for years have suddenly been discovered happening under the target administration, but choose the things related to the direction they want to move. As if the Overton window is not only not covering what they want to change, it no longer even covers the status quo, and we have to go in the opposite direction or he's literally Hitler (or, presumably, Stalin). So you burn up all their political capital just to stand still while turning the viewer against them no matter what they do. Then four years later the status quo remains intact.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by jessaustin on Friday December 10, 2021 @02:50PM (#29514665)
Well that ruined my day... you're right of course. Putting it that way just confirms my belief that the best course is to dissolve this union. Let's chop it into about a dozen pieces. That would be better for Americans, and also for non-Americans. Raytheon would lose some business...
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by AnthonyMouse on Friday December 10, 2021 @08:33PM (#29517561)
The smallest US state has a larger economy than some countries. Fixing it doesn't require dissolution of shared citizenship, what we need to do is stop doing so many things at the federal level.

Why do we need a huge federal military in peacetime when we have the state national guard? Why do we need federal welfare programs instead of state welfare programs? It's not an argument against having a military or having welfare programs, it's a question of where to do it. And the US federal government is the wrong place, because it's too big.

"Laboratories of democracy" are a public good, but you can't have them if Uncle Sam is sucking up the public's money and giving it to Raytheon and drug companies and whoever instead of letting the states and the people have that money to implement a diverse set of independent programs and allowing citizens to decide which they want to live under.

Most of which was caused by 20th century screwing up of the original design. US Senators were originally elected by the state legislatures, to represent the states and temper federal power. The 16th amendment, federal taxation without apportionment, provides the perverse incentive for federal spending to increase without bound because you then have the large majority of states as net recipients of federal spending which is coming from a handful of states who are outnumbered. And guess which ones they are -- you wouldn't know it by asking their representatives because given the setup, they have no incentive not to feed from the same trough even while their residents are getting fleeced.

The good news is most of the taker states are still around breakeven and many of those (like Texas) would likely support fixing this if the likes of New York and Massachusetts would take notice that doing so is strongly in their own interest. (The biggest takers are the swing states, for reasons that should be obvious, but the red and blue states outnumber the purple states -- if they'd work together.)

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by jessaustin on Saturday December 11, 2021 @08:57AM (#29520866)
The thing had already gone off track in 1788. The Constitution is not compatible with democracy.

In a blessed future when we figure out a less totalitarian way to organize ourselves, Americans can still live together and trade with each other. The value of federal spending can be overstated, even for "net winners". Sure it's free money, but it's calibrated to the needs of those who hire lobbyists. No existing entitlement program is as beneficial to the population as just giving directly to individual humans would be.

Several factors that keep some Americans opposed to entitlements would no longer apply in the "laboratories of democracy" situation. No population is actually as hard-ass about deficits as some current representation claims, due to nondemocratic aspects of how such representation is currently elected. Simply redirecting the spigot of "free money" deficit spending away from armaments toward anything beneficial to humans would be a windfall. Spending on children would encourage young families to locate nearby instead of moving to the coasts, so eventually the hollowing-out middle states would see the benefits no matter their "traditional" opposition.

In fact, much of the traditional politics of both the "winners" and "losers" are simply negotiating positions that would disappear without a federal government. "Loser" states sending resources to "winner" states is the way that they "bribe" seemingly opposed representatives into accepting entitlement spending. It has much more to do with politics than with what particular areas "need" or "produce".

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by cwkoss on Friday December 10, 2021 @01:53PM (#29513900)
I'm suspicious that Bernie's heart attack was not natural, but actually the CIA's doing with something like this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/45vsg1/til_c...

(He's old, so a natural heart attack is certainly plausible. But, the powers that be had means, motive and opportunity)

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by pydry on Friday December 10, 2021 @09:44AM (#29510419)
I think he probably had more of an effect than is obvious. Activism raises the political price to governments of making bad decisions. When the powerful change their position as a result of activism, they always try conceal it - the effect is far in excess of what they let on.

In that light, I always found this story of the 6 scared, cold, humiliated and alone mothers of soldiers protesting outside the White House preventing nuclear war with Vietnam somewhat inspiring.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-har...

(The connection is tenuous, but it's not completely unreasonable.)

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by sharikous on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:27AM (#29510970)
It very much depends on the context. In this particular case the US government managed to establish a deterrence too my making him an example.

So I would say the effect is actually in the other direction. That is less activism of that type, not more.

And the connection is not only tenuous. You are making a very general mild claim based on scant evidence. Your consideration is valid but very weak.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by Retric on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:33AM (#29511048)
Activism isn’t the point.

Yes, governments make it hard and will go so far as to actually kill people. It’s still a moderating influence and a feedback mechanism before civil war. I may not agree with them or even care about the issue, but I still respect the sacrifice.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by zepto on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:13AM (#29510804)
In assange’e case, the opposite is true. They were avoiding paying the cost before his leaks. Now the reputational damage is done and so there is less for them to avoid.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by h0l0cube on Friday December 10, 2021 @09:49AM (#29510484)
Much was made of upholding the promise to withdraw troops from the Middle East in the last US election. You can bet Collateral Murder and a number of other Wikileaks publications helped sway public opinion of the US military presence in the Middle East
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by user3939382 on Friday December 10, 2021 @09:38AM (#29510325)
The sad part is how few people even know what he published, especially juxtaposed with his sacrifice. If I go talk to the average person about Snowden or Assange they know little to nothing about what they revealed.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by enriquto on Friday December 10, 2021 @09:41AM (#29510375)
> If I go talk to the average person about Snowden or Assange they know little to nothing about what they revealed.

You are doing good, then. Need to keep talking to more people!

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by hellojesus on Friday December 10, 2021 @01:06PM (#29513263)
I agree, but to me it's troubling so many people simply don't care.

Every time I try to talk to my wife about what the government's doing/has done, she stops me and says, "I really don't care. So long as I can keep living my life without interference, why would I care?"

This also happens when I try to explain basic economics to her.

I find most people I talk to simply don't care so long as they get to enjoy living their dreamy lives.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by goodpoint on Friday December 10, 2021 @09:59AM (#29510614)
> mildly more acknowledged

This is already a very big achievement for just one individual.

How many people, activist or not, have been killed without anybody noticing?

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by hota_mazi on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:02PM (#29512219)
You're forgetting he tried to reach asylum but was stopped midway, and while he was stuck in limbo, he applied for multiple asylums, all of which were rejected.

Not really the mark of someone who wanted to be a martyr as opposed to someone like Navalny, for example.

More an indication of someone who didn't really know what he's doing and became an accidental but very effective Russian agent who ended up being a major contributor to shaking the very foundations of democracy in America.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by chx on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:14PM (#29512447)
This is what so many people forget -- he almost surely (but frankly, even the contrary wouldn't surprise me any more) didn't start out as a Russian agent but most certainly became one.