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Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by seibelj on Thursday December 02, 2021 @11:54AM (#29418708)
I live in Jamaica Plain, a neighborhood of Boston, Massachusetts. Nearly every single home is multi-family, and the single families that do exist are usually $2 million and up. Take a stroll down one of our streets https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3130357,-71.1188873,3a,75y,1...

It is dense, walkable, and extremely beautiful. There is no reason every neighborhood with duplexes has to look like cookie cutter sprawl that makes people unhappy.

Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by Slow_Hand on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:01PM (#29418835)
Seconded. I lived in JP for several years and it was easily my favorite of the Boston neighborhoods to live in. Absolutely gorgeous.

I lived in a 6 bed unit on the top level of a 3-story duplex that had 4 people living on the ground floor. It was a massive house that allowed for ten non-related people to live together on a street filled with similar houses, lined with massive oak trees and a five minute walk from a lovely pond. Gorgeous neighborhood.

Edit: I’ll add that I never experienced any negative effects in JP that I’d associate with such dense living. Unlike the more rowdy student oriented neighborhoods like Allston that were far more rough and messy.

Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by seibelj on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:12PM (#29419035)
It's for more mature and professional people than Allston, but there is a growing group of Northeastern students starting to populate things. I obviously can't prove this, but I believe because everything is so beautiful, people instinctively treat the location better. Whereas Allston is a party area and everything is grimy, so no one cares and joins into the debauchery and littering.
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by ghaff on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:34PM (#29419407)
I've never spent a lot of time in JP, but my understanding is that it is nicer than it used to be. And the gentrification has been somewhat controversial: https://planetgeogblog.wordpress.com/2020/04/22/the-two-jps-...

Also, for those not from the area, JP is indeed a "Boston neighborhood" but it's on the outskirts around parkland, the Arnold Arboretum, etc. and is about a 30 minute public transit ride [edit: on the Orange line not Green line]. So don't imagine this is in Boston in the way many might imagine. It probably has more in common with close in suburbs like Arlington than downtown.

Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by seibelj on Thursday December 02, 2021 @01:00PM (#29419806)
The JP line is the orange line, and getting downtown takes less than 20 minutes. It is the second fastest and most reliable line after the blue line. Arlington is a car suburb and is not Boston proper.
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by ghaff on Thursday December 02, 2021 @01:07PM (#29419926)
Bleh. I knew that. Google did say 30 minutes when I looked. (I've never actually taken transit to JP.)

Of course, the reason that Arlington doesn't have better transit links is that they didn't want it when the Red line was extended to Alewife. JP is certainly less suburban than Arlington but it also doesn't (to me) really feel like it's in "the city."

Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by seibelj on Thursday December 02, 2021 @02:17PM (#29421041)
I agree - it's more suburb than urban, but it is much more of an urban mix than almost all suburbs in the US. I would not say Arlington feels anything like being near the city, the amount of lights and traffic makes it take forever to get downtown. JP is very walkable and has pretty good nightlife if you wanna get blasted and walk home. I love JP.
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by ghaff on Thursday December 02, 2021 @03:45PM (#29422264)
>the amount of lights and traffic makes it take forever to get downtown

If I go into Cambridge after work, it takes me something like 45 minutes to get to Alewife near the Arlington line in pretty nominal reverse commute traffic. It takes me a good other half hour to go the last few miles. (And that's Cambridge. Boston would take even longer although I'd normally take a different route from my house)

Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by tjr225 on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:02PM (#29418871)
Boston was incorporated two hundred years before Los Angeles. Of course it is going to have more beautiful, old houses. Of course it is going to have more walkable neighborhoods.

But what I'm more interested in is this:

> Nearly every single home is multi-family, and the single families that do exist are usually $2 million and up.

SFH are already 1 million and up in LA, really in SD, LA, SF, Seattle, and Vancouver. It will be interesting to see what happens to SFH values if they become scarcer. It seems like it might have the opposite effect that the NIMBYs generally fear, and make them even _more_ wealthy.

Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by grandmczeb on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:23PM (#29419211)
In my experience, it’s a misconception that NIMBYS are motivated by property values directly. There are exceptions of course, but usually it’s either some sort of perceived lifestyle impact (traffic, shade, “neighborhood character”, etc) or just general anxiety over change.
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by Tiktaalik on Thursday December 02, 2021 @01:50PM (#29420597)
Yeah I mean, what do you figure the value of a SFH would be in downtown Manhattan?

SFH's or rather, the underlying land the house sits on, is going to become insanely valuable as the amount available dwindles and population grows.

There is no unwinding this trend. The only thing that can be done is to ignore and not worry about the price of a SFH, and subdivide the land into more apartments so that more people can afford to live on that parcel of land.

Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by thehappypm on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:16PM (#29419103)
Most houses in JP are from the ~40s.
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by quadrangle on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:23PM (#29419225)
Yup, in other words, the last period of development before the interstate highway push and car-sprawl suburban experiment ruined and bankrupted the country.
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by nluken on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:05PM (#29418917)
Great example.

JP isn't quite a suburb but I look to it as a fantastic example of how suburban development could be condensed without losing its character. With proper upzoning, suburbs could have denser cores of multi-family housing without impacting those that want less dense housing outside the core. These towns would be more walkable and prettier places to live.

Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by throwaway1777 on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:51PM (#29419672)
I agree it looks great. But the density is around 8500/sq mile, which happens to be almost the same as Los Angeles. So, this type of development wouldn’t do that much for housing affordability in LA. I feel like people seriously underestimate how dense Californian cities already are.
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by nluken on Thursday December 02, 2021 @01:04PM (#29419877)
I suspect that JP's density is actually a bit higher than that today, given that it was 8500/sq mile based on 2010 population. Regardless, it's important to consider that JP is miles outside the city center. It isn't so much a model of super dense housing as it is a good way to up the density of neighborhoods that might otherwise only support 3500/sq mile. JP represents a good middle ground between the car-centric deep suburbs and the extremely dense city center.
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by sgt on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:05PM (#29418912)
Have you ever had your mail sent to Jamaica?
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by seibelj on Friday December 03, 2021 @12:58AM (#29427070)
Not yet!
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by foobarian on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:07PM (#29418950)
Ah yes, Boston. No need to worry about what would happen to those 2, 3, and 4 story wood houses if they got a good shakeup at 5+ on the Richter scale.
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by ethanbond on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:11PM (#29419011)
That’s why they build so small and spread out in Tokyo, and never with wood!
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by foobarian on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:20PM (#29419171)
Never say never, recently there has been a spate of news about engineered wood beams looking like pretty capable replacements for steel. Example: [1]

[1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/is-mass-timber-the-buildin...

Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by TYPE_FASTER on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:24PM (#29419237)
https://earthquaketrack.com/us-ma-boston/biggest

I remember that Sanbornton quake. We lived in rural NH. At first I thought it was the clothes washer...then the house really started shaking.

Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by RandallBrown on Thursday December 02, 2021 @01:00PM (#29419816)
Explain the thousands and thousands of new 2, 3, and 4 story wood houses in Seattle.

From my understanding wood is actually pretty good for earthquakes.

Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by ehutch79 on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:23PM (#29419214)
It's not like developers in LA don't know how to build things resistant to seismic events.
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by nluken on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:09PM (#29418983)
Right, that's why San Fransisco consists entirely of single story buildings.
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by HNTA_1 on Thursday December 02, 2021 @12:27PM (#29419285)
That just looks like many older, low density suburbs (single family homes with some duplexes and ADUs sprinkled in) all across the US (especially older suburbs in the South).

>It is dense

It's absolutely not dense, probably less dense than newer suburbs with smaller lots.

>walkable, and extremely beautiful.

I'll give you that, it definitely looks beautiful.

Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by nluken on Thursday December 02, 2021 @01:06PM (#29419910)
I'd certainly call JP dense- it's got more than twice the population density of Houston, and it's slightly more dense than LA.
Re:Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in singl... by HNTA_1 on Thursday December 02, 2021 @01:21PM (#29420127)
>it's got more than twice the population density of Houston

You're comparing a neighborhood of Boston to one of the largest cities in the US.

A more apt comparison would be the West University Place suburb of Houston that has roughly the same population density and similar size as JP. It's an older Houston suburb.

A "dense" suburban area would be something Jamaica in Queens, NYC. That has something like 6 times the density of JP.