Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions?

Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by squiffsquiff on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:09PM (#29383039)

You know that some devices essentially "require" network connectivity for initial setup? E.g. https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/tv/smart-tv-set-up-witho...

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by squarefoot on Monday November 29, 2021 @02:12PM (#29383869)

Not just that. Broadband connection for things will become so cheap in the future that it could become essentially free one day so it can be subsidized by the businesses depending on it. 5G aside, It is believable that in a few years most home broadband routers, even tightly closed ones, could open a channel anyway using a fraction of the bandwidth for exclusive use by devices so that only closed source drivers will be able to instruct WiFi chips to see and use it. The catch being that there won't be any means of preventing the TV or other devices from going online, short of opening them and removing physically the network hardware. I believe we badly need alternative (Open Source, auditable, trustworthy) operating systems for smart TVs too. Next will be cars, fridges, etc. Pretty much everything.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by khedoros1 on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:24PM (#29383247)

Yeah...mine shows a nag about not accepting the online agreements, connecting the TV to the network, etc. Hasn't stopped me from using it as a display for the inputs I was using on my previous non-smart TV.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by jjoonathan on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:33PM (#29383361)

Ew.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by johnklos on Monday November 29, 2021 @02:26PM (#29384054)

The statement, "just don't connect it to the network" still stands. If something requires a connection, return it. It's clearly anti-consumer and will do nefarious things (which we already know Samsung does).

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by nerdponx on Tuesday November 30, 2021 @09:15AM (#29392290)

And then you won't have a TV, and Samsung will keep making these abusive TVs without giving one single fuck about your return.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by rapsey on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:11PM (#29383068)

So give it a network connection for initial setup then take it away?

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by squiffsquiff on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:18PM (#29383171)

So you'll still have all the adverts, they just don't update?

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by flatiron on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:28PM (#29383296)

I had to do that. My Samsung couldn’t leave “demo mode” or whatever without going online first and would restart itself every hour. I just let it register and blocked it from coming out my router. It stays quiet like that. I believe removing the wifi showed some nag when booting that I had to deal with. Real scummy stuff.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by mindslight on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:34PM (#29383367)

Buy it from a place with free returns. Then if it insists on showing cached ads after the network is pulled (or any other undesirable behavior), just return it. This won't help you find a better model, but it will save you from needing to research these obscure details in too much depth.

. o O ( I wonder if some hostile antifeatures go away if you buy a TV in the US but then activate it from an EU IP address ).

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by rbanffy on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:28PM (#29383295)

> they just don't update?

That's a cursed scenario...

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by danudey on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:42PM (#29383471)

Run it through pihole to block the ad networks? Or just whitelist hostnames/addresses one by one until the setup works.

Not exactly a user-friendly option, but an option nonetheless.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by bee_rider on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:28PM (#29383294)

Annoying, but at least it isn't feeding your information in to the weird ad-driven panopticon (we'll leave that to the content providers!)

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by gmadsen on Monday November 29, 2021 @02:59PM (#29384458)

dns block it at the router

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by jitix on Monday November 29, 2021 @02:01PM (#29383745)

Yeah I was afraid my new TV would do that. I was planning to return it if it did because I had bad experience with Vizio and TCL smart TVs breaking updates before (I'm an Apple TV user).

I can confirm that Roku firmware works great without the internet and doesn't nag. I just turn it on and switch to my Apple TV.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by elsherbini on Monday November 29, 2021 @12:50PM (#29382805)

I cant find a source, but I remember a discussion here on a brand of smart tvs that still phone home by connecting to other nearby smart tvs that are connected to a network, even if you don't connect yours to the network.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by theshrike79 on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:01PM (#29382936)

It was Samsung TVs that will automatically connect to any open Wifi nearby to get their ads updated, even if you tell it not to.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by chubot on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:43PM (#29383492)

Really? Source? Which models?

I just bought a Samsung 4K TV a month ago. I didn't connect it to wi-fi or do any setup. I just plugged my computer in.

I have not seen any ads. It seems to work fine offline in all respects.

If it actually did this I would definitely return the TV.

In case it matters it was this Q60A "QLED" 43 inch 4K TV: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-43-class-q60a-series-ql...

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by theshrike79 on Tuesday November 30, 2021 @03:59AM (#29390273)

Can't find a better source since the subreddit where I got the info is now private for some reason: https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/bpr6xs/if_you_choo...

Basically Samsung TVs at least used to grab any open Wifi to connect to if you don't provide them with credentials to your own. Also there is no way to fully disable the wifi.

The solution was to set the connection to manual configuration and set all addresses to 0.0.0.0.

Of course this is not an issue if the only network your TV can see is your own, more of a problem in apartments where there might be 20 wireless networks available at any time.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by lpapez on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:57PM (#29383694)

I got this exact same model today. Never gonna connect it to wifi anyway, seemed perfect.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by SamuelAdams on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:12PM (#29383073)

HDMI cables now come with 10/100 Ethernet built in. So it could connect via your devices connection.

So pay attention to the hdmi cable you use.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by xattt on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:20PM (#29383197)

There are no receivers on the market that act as HDMI Ethernet network switches.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by ARandumGuy on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:32PM (#29383349)

Are there any examples of TVs doing this, or is this just a hypothetical?

There are some TVs that will try to connect to the internet via non-obvious means (Samsung TVs were mentioned elsewhere in this thread). TV manufacturers aren't spy agencies though. They're not going to put in that much effort to sneak an internet connection, when most users willingly connect their TVs to WiFi anyway. If I can't find an article about a given TV sneaking in an internet connection, I would be pretty confident that it doesn't.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by KennyBlanken on Monday November 29, 2021 @04:37PM (#29385609)

> They're not going to put in that much effort to sneak an internet connection,

The profit from collecting data on you and displaying ads on the TV is greater than the profit from the sale of the TV.

They absolutely will go to whatever lengths they can.

https://www.cnet.com/news/as-smart-tvs-become-the-only-optio...

https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/22773073/vizio-acr-adver...

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by danudey on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:43PM (#29383493)

I've been looking for years and I have yet to find any systems (TV, receiver, or injector) which actually take advantage of this feature.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by periheli0n on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:21PM (#29383205)

They have been for a while. But are these actually used for IP connectivity? If that was the case, a laptop’s HDMI port should show up as network interface, which it doesn’t, at least not on my machine.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by thoughtsimple on Monday November 29, 2021 @12:59PM (#29382908)

I have a Roku that I block from the internet. It blinks an obnoxious red led to complain it can’t phone home. I need some gaffer’s tape to cover it up I guess.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by runjake on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:11PM (#29383057)

This is what I did for my TCL Roku TV: just taped over the annoying blinking light.

If enough people do this, I anticipate that in the next model, they'll replace that blinking light with an forced on-screen overlay.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by dmd on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:35PM (#29383378)

I have a TCL Roku 6-series. If you do a factory reset, and from the start don't let it connect, then you won't get the blinking light.

You only get the blinking light if you take away access after having given it.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by jrm4 on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:47PM (#29383560)

I was curious about this -- I've been digging and I can't find a solution, is it possible to tell these things to jump straight to HDMI once you turn them on? Or are you always stuck with at least that one homescreen jump. Trying to make this thing as "dumb" as possible.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by mholm on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:59PM (#29383715)

If you use any device that correctly uses HDMI CEC, then yes. I only have an Apple TV remote with some cheap Element Amazon TV, and I keep the TV remote taped to the back of the TV. Apple TV and Chromescasts will turn it on, off, and swap source to itself when used. I'd imagine Roku/Firesticks do as well.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by dmd on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:58PM (#29383703)

Yes, there's an option in Settings to automatically open a specific input on startup.

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by IG_Semmelweiss on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:21PM (#29383215)

What is your usecase? Trying to understand the point of having apps without the wifi.

I have noticed a marked increase in youtube ads in the roku app. Prob due to roku has updated itself without permission.

Now i dread having to deal with pihole hacks + routers to fence it out of our home network :/

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by boardwaalk on Monday November 29, 2021 @01:48PM (#29383568)

They said internet, not wifi. Perhaps some Roku apps can play media from your local network? Plex, or a built-in media player?

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by fsflover on Monday November 29, 2021 @12:49PM (#29382796)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28583761

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28045189

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Re:Ask HN: Are there any 4K “dumb” televisions? by jimjams on Monday November 29, 2021 @12:53PM (#29382848)

... "don't connect it to the network", means don't connect it to the network, via a Roku-router or wlan or whatever.

Don't buy one with other networks either, if they exist...

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