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Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by nope96 on Saturday November 27, 2021 @01:17PM (#29362136)
What's the best way to virtualize Windows 95/98? I've read VMware no longer supports it.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by aninteger on Saturday November 27, 2021 @01:24PM (#29362181)
Non-support does not necessarily imply non-working. Anyway, QEMU still work just fine.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by mikeroySoft on Saturday November 27, 2021 @01:27PM (#29362207)
Still VMware. “Not Supported” in this context just means it’s not continually tested.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by wila on Saturday November 27, 2021 @04:20PM (#29363667)
There's plenty of hardware Windows 98 no longer works on Mike.

Just tried it on my 2012 mac with Fusion Player 12.1.2 the other day. Windows 98 does no longer boot. Worked fine on Fusion 8. My guess is that it needs Binary Translation support and that's not available with 12.x

edit:

My bad.

Figured to see if I could find out why. Upgrading from virtual hardware 4 to virtual hardware 6 seems to help. (yeah yeah, it's an old VM)

edit 2:

With some of the more recent AMD processors however you are out of luck, they really need BT.

Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by calvin_ on Saturday November 27, 2021 @04:33PM (#29363786)
they don't need BT, but rather, you can't let the VM manage its own PTEs. virtualbox lets you configure that - just turn off nested paging. vmware unfortunately doesn't do that. if you can get the VM booting in safe mode, flipping the safety options from system properties perf button might help too. (I will say ME runs fine where 98 doesn't. weird!)
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by userbinator on Saturday November 27, 2021 @05:28PM (#29364225)
but rather, you can't let the VM manage its own PTEs. virtualbox lets you configure that - just turn off nested paging

The background information for that reason is contained in these two detailed articles:

https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2015/08/pagewalk-coherence/

https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2015/08/win9x-tlb-invalidation-b...

tl;dr: newer AMD processors have non-coherent pagewalks. Intel has maintained coherent pagewalks despite that not being explicitly guaranteed in their documentation. Win9x depends on that.

I will say ME runs fine where 98 doesn't. weird!

Caching/speculative execution related bugs are very sensitive to patterns of memory access.

Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by wila on Saturday November 27, 2021 @04:36PM (#29363813)
If that's true then perhaps Mike can have someone take a look ;)

It would be nice if Win98 works for everyone still.

Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by wila on Sunday November 28, 2021 @05:46AM (#29367881)
Oh and thanks for the mouse driver :)
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by nope96 on Saturday November 27, 2021 @04:51PM (#29363929)
This is what I'm talking about - perhaps a Ryzen thing?

https://communities.vmware.com/t5/VMware-Workstation-Pro/Win...

Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by anthk on Saturday November 27, 2021 @07:09PM (#29364906)
Virtualbox 5.4 for example. Install W2K up to SP4, install guest additions, then run:

          regsvr32 %WINDIR%\AppPatch\slayerui.dll
Set up binary compatibility for any exe as you would do in XP. Problem solved.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by DaiPlusPlus on Saturday November 27, 2021 @01:27PM (#29362210)
Microsoft VirtualPC 2005 was pretty good, it had in-box sound and graphics drivers for Windows 9x. I'm unsure to what extent it runs on modern Windows versions though.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by stuaxo on Saturday November 27, 2021 @08:31PM (#29365377)
I wonder if the guest API of virtualpc is emulatable?
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by x86_64Ubuntu on Saturday November 27, 2021 @01:56PM (#29362446)
This is a stupid question, but can you run a VMWare Modern instance, and inside of that have a VMWare Ancient instance that runs Windows 95/98? I've never heard of nesting VMs, but I've never looked either.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by sgtnoodle on Saturday November 27, 2021 @02:07PM (#29362526)
If the VM depends on hardware virtualization support, you can only go one layer deep. If the VM does not depend on hardware support, then sure you should be able to nest multiple layers.

For really old software, you can probably get away with fairly high overhead emulation rather than virtualization, and it would probably be less buggy. I would imagine something like qemu would have no trouble booting up windows 95.

Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by AshamedCaptain on Saturday November 27, 2021 @03:16PM (#29362981)
> f the VM depends on hardware virtualization support, you can only go one layer deep

Most VM support nesting of hardware virtualization, with glaring exceptions being Windows's HyperV (until W11 apparently) and Xen.

Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by mook on Saturday November 27, 2021 @03:29PM (#29363073)
Was there even hardware virtualization support to take advantage of if you're going that old?
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by wila on Saturday November 27, 2021 @04:12PM (#29363557)
Yes, that's exactly what I do.

This way you get the binary translation feature from the older VMware version while you can use the hardware accelerated virtualisation in the outer layer.

Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by mysterydip on Saturday November 27, 2021 @08:53PM (#29365470)
That's actually how the VMware training courses I participated in were run: each student had their own virtual datacenter made up of multiple VMs.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by paulryanrogers on Saturday November 27, 2021 @01:27PM (#29362208)
As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, I've had good luck with DOSBox-X. If you need specialty hardware support then you may need to look elsewhere.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by orbital-decay on Saturday November 27, 2021 @02:02PM (#29362484)
PCem is great for this; it's been made to emulate a wide range of old PC hardware.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by calvin_ on Saturday November 27, 2021 @04:31PM (#29363770)
VMware still supports it, it just uses an old version of Tools to do so.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by AshamedCaptain on Saturday November 27, 2021 @03:15PM (#29362972)
No one has mentioned VirtualBox yet?
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by breakingcups on Saturday November 27, 2021 @04:15PM (#29363600)
For good reason. Oracle's licensing is nefarious. They changed the licensing of the extension pack between versions, so now if you run it for personal use but connect to your company's wifi, they'll get your company on the hook for "violating" their license.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by Sunspark on Saturday November 27, 2021 @04:55PM (#29363969)
Out of curiosity, if one was to bring their laptop to Starbucks, would Oracle lawyers attack Starbucks?
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by yjftsjthsd-h on Saturday November 27, 2021 @07:47PM (#29365135)
Surprisingly plausible; there's precedent:

https://www.theregister.com/2019/10/04/oracle_virtualbox_mer...

Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by AshamedCaptain on Saturday November 27, 2021 @06:33PM (#29364679)
However, you don't need the extension pack at all to run 3.11 or 9x.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by Narishma on Saturday November 27, 2021 @04:22PM (#29363683)
It doesn't run those OSes very well.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by AshamedCaptain on Saturday November 27, 2021 @06:37PM (#29364707)
Neither do VMware nor qemu, but they are being announced here. They even fix my (almost periodical) choppy audio regressions when I report them, and that's more support than I get from VMware.
Re:VMware mouse driver for Windows 3.x by anthk on Saturday November 27, 2021 @07:08PM (#29364898)
Virtualbox 5.x with Windows 2000 setting up compatibility mode:

        regsvr32 %WINDIR%\AppPatch\slayerui.dll