The vast majority people will never encounter a circumstance where that will be an issue. To withhold a (n optional) feature from the masses based on the hypothetical actions of an agency who can abuse your fingerprints but will stop short of torture doesn't really make sense.

1. With police authoritarian levels where they are, I doubt saying "the vast majority" won't encounter similar tactics in the near future would be correct, or at least there is evidence enough to offer strong debate on the topic.

2. Nobody claimed to then want to withhold the feature "from the masses"... so this is a strawman.

3. "hypothetical actions of an agency"... I think it's pretty clear that these types of methods are not hypothetical, and are being used already

4. "will stop short of torture"... I also think it's clear that many LEO's, especially the closer to federal ones, have been found to torture already.

I agree with gp, biometrics on phones are a bad idea all around, for a lot more reasons that have been said. I don't know why you are protesting this idea as you do.

HN, and the tech bubble at large, is all about "edge-cases." Too many Debbie Downers getting off on playing "what if" scenarios, while ignoring reality.

> Unfortunately for the FBI, Artan’s lifeless fingerprint didn’t unlock the device (an iPhone 5 model, though Moledor couldn’t recall which. Touch ID was introduced in the iPhone 5S). In the hours between his death and the attempt to unlock, when the feds had to go through legal processes regarding access to the smartphone, the iPhone had gone to sleep and when reopened required a passcode, Moledor said.

From your https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2018/03/22/yes-c...

Except the FBI probably won't make that mistake again. They'll wake up a judge and expedite the process, citing this exact case as to why they need to be granted the subpoena. from there it's not that hard to make a jig that constantly does some sort of action so the phone never goes to sleep.

> What they can’t do is make you remember a code/password which you have “forgotten.”

But they can lock you up for not supplying it.

What good does this do for anyone though?

> What they can’t do is make you remember a code/password which you have “forgotten.”

They might be able to with an FMRI machine.

Maybe at some point in the future, but we definitely aren't at the stage of being able to parse out a specific password from an FMRI reading right now.

No, but combined with torture it might be effective enough.

For some, being placed in the MRI would be torture. Hope you don't have a plate in your head or other bodily location. Would torturers be so concerned with this, or is that just part of the threat.

TLA person: Give us the code or we put you the MRI machine!!

Victim: Can't you just use a $5 wrench instead?

No, I think that adding torture to the mix will make the FMRI results even less readable

What I was thinking was using FMRI to find out if they actually do remember the password (FMRI lie detection really only works with yes/no questions, AFAIK). If they don't know, then torture is a waste of time. If they do know, then you know torture may be fruitful.

FMRI uses indicators like pulse, heartrate, etc. to make a more or less estimate on the truthfulness. Torture can make these indicators useless. Torture is a very flawed method to extract informations. You can't be sure that the victim isn't telling lies or admits to crimes just to make the torture stop.

They can just ‘538 it. https://xkcd.com/538/

In the US at least FMRI should fall under fifth amendment, right? Otherwise the fifth amendment would be useless. A right to remain silent wouldn’t exist if you can’t silence your brain. If one day there are stargate replicators that can reach into your mind, would that be legal?

In court, absolutely.

There are still plenty of places where polygraph examinations are used legally.