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Re:10 years of whatever this has been by umanwizard on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:28PM (#29261985)
But Bitcoin hasn’t succeeded. It doesn’t allow you to do anything useful except (1) buy drugs on the internet, and (2) move money out of authoritarian countries, both of which he acknowledges in the article.

The fact that a lot of people care about blockchains and are willing to make speculative bets on them doesn’t mean that the idea is actually useful for much.

The FAANGs at least have made some real products, some of which some people find useful.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by anm89 on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:37PM (#29262024)
But Google hasn't succeeded! It was supposed to do something useful but all it does is mine data for ads. They were supposed to not be evil but they are evil.

But Facebook hasn't succeeded. It was supposed to do something useful but all it does is mine data for ads. They were supposed to connect everyone but all they did was corrupt our political system.

But Apple hasn't succeeded. It was supposed to do something useful but all it does is pump out a new Iphone color every year and remove a port. They were supposed to revolutionize computing but all the did was figure out how to sell shiny junk made by poor people in developing markets to middle class people in developing markets.

See how easy it is to play that game?

Somehow I'm guessing most people who like bitcoin in 2011 aren't reeling from the failure of bitcoin.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by umanwizard on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:41PM (#29262038)
Your analogies miss the mark because in addition to the negative things you’ve pointed out, Google Search, for example, _is_ useful.

Comparing the usefulness of Bitcoin to Google Search or the smartphone is asinine.

> Somehow I'm guessing most people who like bitcoin in 2011 aren't reeling from the failure of bitcoin.

Of course not — they’re all extremely wealthy. That’s irrelevant to the discussion; I’m sure the author of this piece understands that Bitcoin has increased in value, but that’s not at all what the piece is about.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by anm89 on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:05AM (#29262138)
How ridiculous to suggest that there is some objective trait called useful that you have a monopoly on determining.

Turns out that various people may find all of these various things either useful or not useful because it is subjective.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by philosopher1234 on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:48AM (#29262346)
What is useful about Bitcoin? I genuinely don’t understand what use people see in it. Do you have a use? It seems to me the main use is “get rich on vetting it will go up” because I haven’t been able to find any other articulation of why i might ever want to use it.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by errantmind on Thursday November 18, 2021 @01:19AM (#29262515)
Can you not imagine a future where the value of the USD is continually inflated by the FED to benefit particular segment of society, and wanting an out? What if there was this currency that no government could inflate away for political reasons, that you could really rely on to be free of short-term economic thinking?
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by beambot on Thursday November 18, 2021 @01:57AM (#29262769)
> What is useful about Bitcoin?

No quasi-governmental agency can unilaterally decide to print gobs more of it & drive inflation through the roof...

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by chaxor on Thursday November 18, 2021 @03:57AM (#29263514)
Have you never eaten with a friend and had to pay them with Venmo? You could also do it with paypal, or even hugs.

Or Monero. It's a bit more stable since people use it as a currency more often.

You have options, which pretty much depend on what that person wants to receive. It's not that big of a deal guys, stop the hate. It's a bit childish really

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by polio on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:58AM (#29262401)
Okay, how about you give us an example of its utility aside from being a speculative instrument
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by errantmind on Thursday November 18, 2021 @01:21AM (#29262528)
How about instantaneous, near free payments and money transfer anywhere in the world? Please take a look at the lightning network.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by yuuu on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:26AM (#29262237)
Oh yeah, the comparisons of Bitcoin with XML and a train wreck are much better and much more accurate than the commenter's analogies.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by markbnj on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:07AM (#29262159)
>> It was supposed to do something useful but all it does is mine data for ads.

Gmail, docs, sheets, slides, drawings, calendar and geez just 1000 other things disagree with you. Yeah I know the ad network is paying for that stuff: that's the bargain that people who use their ecosystem of software products have made, just as people on Apple's ecosystem accept their tradeoffs. It just seems extremely cynical to suggest Google has done, or is doing, nothing useful. If there was no utility flowing the other way in return for the eyeballs and profile data I don't think they'd have a business.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by zimablue on Thursday November 18, 2021 @02:14AM (#29262893)
I don't think Google has succeeded, for the same reasons you state ironically. "Making money/having power" isn't "success", it's "making money/having power". I don't find it at all ridiculous to say that Google and Facebook are failures, I (as the author) contest the synonymity of success and money. It's actually telling of how shit our society is that you (and most people) say "success" and mean "money", and find attempts to separate them laughable.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by djinnandtonic on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:56PM (#29262104)
I think you were being sarcastic but yes all your points are correct (except Bitcoin has still failed)
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by anm89 on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:06AM (#29262151)
And yet a VAST majority of people would label all of those companies successes and would also label bitcoin a success (comparatively from where it was 11 years ago)
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by mitchdoogle on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:50PM (#29262078)
You can buy tons of stuff with Bitcoin (not just drugs). You can transfer it around the world basically for free (transaction fees amount to the equivalent of pennies no matter how much you send). It's immutable. Basically it does the things it's supposed to do. It's gained widespread adoption, a whole economy, thousands of businesses.

It is, without a doubt, successful.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by umanwizard on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:54PM (#29262095)
> You can buy tons of stuff with Bitcoin

You can also buy tons of stuff with USD. The only innovation of Bitcoin is that it allows you to do illegal stuff.

A more expensive and cumbersome way to do what you could already do with other tools is not “success”.

> You can transfer it around the world basically for free (transaction fees amount to the equivalent of pennies no matter how much you send).

This is also true of, for example, TransferWise.

> It’s immutable

This actually makes it worse than the existing financial system, because being able to reverse fraudulent transactions is a feature, not a bug.

> It’s gained widespread adoption, a while economy, thousands of businesses.

Also true of USD. You still haven’t demonstrated any advantage of Bitcoin other than illegal transactions.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by yownie on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:05AM (#29262146)
>This is also true of, for example, TransferWise.

Not for small to large amounts for less than pennies

>A more expensive and cumbersome way to do what you could already do with other tools is not “success”.

You're vastly underestimating the amount of people trapped in regimes where they cannot spend their funds abroad or risk having them devalued at whim.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by crummy on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:42AM (#29262319)
> or risk having them devalued at whim.

doesn't that describe a lot of cryptocurrencies? or are you suggesting the people in these regimes use cryptocurrencies as an intermediary to transfer their local currency into more stable foreign currency?

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by wonnage on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:36AM (#29262294)
Bitcoin is the definition of getting devalued at whim
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by errantmind on Thursday November 18, 2021 @01:15AM (#29262488)
This reasoning is really strange and reeks of bitterness. Do you have anything backing up your claim BTC is used for mostly illegal activities? Please provide some very clear citations for that claim.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by umanwizard on Thursday November 18, 2021 @01:22AM (#29262537)
I never claimed that, and have no idea whether it’s true.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by Osiris on Thursday November 18, 2021 @02:29AM (#29262989)
Much more illegal activity happens with USD than with Bitcoin.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by jjeaff on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:58PM (#29262108)
There are very few things you can buy more easily using Bitcoin. And average fees to send money right now with Bitcoin are 2-3%. Which is not great, considering the current financial system offers lots of much cheaper options for sending money.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by yownie on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:08AM (#29262167)
take a look at Bitcoins Lightning network sometime, you'd be surprised.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by akavi on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:17AM (#29262196)
> It's gained widespread adoption, a whole economy, thousands of businesses.

What percent of those business denominate their prices in bitcoin?

What percent of those businesses do anything but immediately convert the bitcoin back into fiat the moment they take possession?

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by yuuu on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:24AM (#29262227)
So because Bitcoin hasn't overtaken fiat currency as the de facto international standard means it's a failure? All of the critics in this thread sure have some narrow goalposts, don't they?
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by stouset on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:39AM (#29262310)
I think you’re missing the point that Bitcoin is at zero percent for this metric.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by XorNot on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:57AM (#29262399)
> (2) move money out of authoritarian countries

To move money out of an authoritarian country, you have to know someone who wants to move money in. The only reason it works at all is because the total amount of Bitcoin doing this is comparatively very small compared to local corruption and mining which can support this use case.

To make this transaction someone else in your local authoritarian country has to have Bitcoin, and be willing to exchange it for local currency. It's no huge surprise a lot of mining power ended up in China, because of course this is a transaction you do not want to do in China: you want to originate Bitcoin and then get some Americans to pay you nice clean USDs into bank accounts outside of China.

Which of course works because electricity consumption in China is relatively unsuspect (or was: naturally China has cracked down on this and is having ongoing power shortages to boot).

Which of course creates a weird compromise: if Bitcoin is good at getting money out of authoritarian countries, then either you're outsourcing to someone who can move currency around locally, or you are outsourcing an increasing fraction of the Bitcoin mining compute, and thus control of the network.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by fastball on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:38PM (#29262025)
Nobody buys drugs on the internet with Bitcoin in 2021.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by JohnJamesRambo on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:50PM (#29262080)
(2) is enough to say it completely succeeded.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by sanxiyn on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:55PM (#29262100)
I agree. I personally donated Bitcoins to WikiLeaks.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by corndoge on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:35PM (#29262012)
Maybe Bitcoin doesn't, but as for the rest of the ecosystem, the gentleman author seems to have little idea of what he is taking about.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by umanwizard on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:36PM (#29262014)
As far as I know, no blockchain has ever proven useful for any purpose other than illegal money transfers. Do you have any counterexamples?
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by kipchak on Thursday November 18, 2021 @01:55AM (#29262757)
Filechain might be worth a look, distributed storage to allow people to rent out unused storage capacity in exchange for coins and based in IPFS which isn't blockchain but is neat.

Or Internet Computer, which is more or less a blockchain equivalent of the internet allowing you to for example host a website on it versus say AWS or GoDaddy, which has some potentially very positive benefits for data security and users being able to manage their own data as practical benefits.

https://messari.io/article/an-introduction-to-dfinity-and-th...

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by rapsey on Thursday November 18, 2021 @02:23AM (#29262952)
Everything you listed is useless. Slow, hard to use and limited in functionality.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by chaxor on Thursday November 18, 2021 @04:06AM (#29263554)
Data is useless to you? I think you're just showing how much you're unwilling to attempt to stray from the religion of anti-crypto.

I'm not really a big fan of crypto, but you do have to admit that some of the projects would do some good for the world when they catch on.

I would love to have an easy system to distribute ML models and databases for projects without having to pay AWS fees for example.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by rapsey on Thursday November 18, 2021 @04:32AM (#29263691)
What data? We are talking about projects and those projects are useless.

> but you do have to admit that some of the projects would do some good for the world when they catch on.

The will not catch on because they are useless for real world use. The most cost efficient way to do processing or data storage is within someones datacenter.

> I would love to have an easy system to distribute ML models and databases for projects without having to pay AWS fees for example.

I would love a free meal as well. It does not make sense for me to expect free lunches though.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by chaxor on Thursday November 18, 2021 @05:04AM (#29263866)
It's not a "free lunch". I would advise you to look into projects like these, as it appears you have a lack of expertise in this field. That knowledge gap isn't filled by dismissing projects with a religious like attitude
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by umanwizard on Thursday November 18, 2021 @09:37AM (#29265859)
> distributed storage to allow people to rent out unused storage capacity in exchange for coins

How is this any better than S3, which lets me rent storage space in exchange for USD?

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by kipchak on Thursday November 18, 2021 @10:50AM (#29266789)
Filecoin storage is about .02% the cost of S3, at least according to this calculator.

https://file.app/

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by ur-whale on Thursday November 18, 2021 @03:01AM (#29263191)
> Do you have any counterexamples?

There's an entire blockchain-based industry being built in the gaming space as we speak, to allow player to trade NFT's (unique items in games).

There are many more.

> other than illegal money transfers

To address your point more directly: depending on the regime you live under, illegal money transfers are a life-saving device, so just that use case makes Bitcoin worth it.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by sanxiyn on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:04AM (#29262135)
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by sanxiyn on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:47PM (#29262069)
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by umanwizard on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:50PM (#29262082)
Online casinos predate Bitcoin.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by ur-whale on Thursday November 18, 2021 @03:02AM (#29263197)
> Online casinos predate Bitcoin.

You missed the "provably fair" part.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by crooked-v on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:50PM (#29262081)
An unregulated betting platform sounds like illegal money transfers to me.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by sanxiyn on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:53PM (#29262092)
Betting is not just money transfer, it's something more.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by loeg on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:18AM (#29262198)
Illegal gambling?
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by yownie on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:09AM (#29262170)
bitrefill.com
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by kneel on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:44PM (#29262049)
It's incredible for long term savings.
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by baq on Thursday November 18, 2021 @02:36AM (#29263021)
a) in fiat terms and b) has been up till now
Re:10 years of whatever this has been by ur-whale on Thursday November 18, 2021 @03:06AM (#29263215)
> a) in fiat terms

It's true that if your measuring stick is toilet paper, the current price of Bitcoin doesn't tell you much.

> b) has been up till now

Past performance is no guarantee of future ... etc

Sure, that's what every traditional investment prospectus says in the first paragraph. They usually then proceed to explain how well they've been doing and why you should therefore invest.

There is something called Baye's rule. Ignore it at your own (opportunity cost) risk.

Re:10 years of whatever this has been by stouset on Thursday November 18, 2021 @12:37AM (#29262302)
Don’t forget (3) scams and (4) ransomware.