I think parent OP used "we" very much correctly, don't try to isolate some people's impact on society.

We all enjoyed when Jeff Bezos delivered our products faster to our homes. We enjoyed when our food is delivered from any restaurant we asked, we enjoyed traveling to other places and generating CO2 along the way.

And do you know why we enjoyed them? Because those people who strive for achievements worked really hard to create these conveniences for us, for some of them there was no personal life, working nights, no family, just career! And they achieved what they wanted. Now they demand from everyone such dedication. Hence some companies (employees to be exact) are creating hidden rules not to promote people with kids, because at some point they might not be as productive as 21 years who just graduated, with lots of energy to burn and cheap to employ. People don't want to have kids because they might distract from their career.

Now our society has problems, pollution, low wages, homelessness, burned out people, because not everyone can perform on their peers level without kids, without personal life and so on

And "we" who don't strive for achievement didn't stop them.

You are twisting words quite a bit. I very much belong to 'the other' tribe of not giving a nanofraction of a fuck about some of these 'achievements' pushed on us, done by people who don't get the concept and urgency of work-life balance. No amazon prime deliveries? In fact, no Amazon deliveries in Switzerland that make any sense? We get by just fine. We don't order food from restaurants, it negates the very reason why to go to restaurant in the first place, the social experience is just not there. I can cook +-comparably well and actually enjoy the process. And so on.

I have myself mapped extremely well thanks to long term involvement with some extreme sports, backpacking around the globe and few times use of psilocybin in the right setting. I know exactly what makes me tick and what is superficial shallow BS, and what you describe is right there.

Again, achievements you describe as some holy grail of mankind mean next to nothing. My wife is a doctor, exactly same story - she can tell you all evening about true respectable achievements, and none of it is about some engineer figuring slightly more effective way for business to deliver.

And don't drag the topic into 'you didn't stop this from happening!' - we are adults, and responsible for our own development and life paths. Don't expect me or anybody else to babysit you and set your life straight to get happy and fulfilled life. If you won't, no guidebook nor internet course, nor aging itself will. Get your own shit together and do it yourself to be more precise.

So you did extreme sports and drugs and figured out life better than everyone else? To the point where you would tell everyone else to "get your own shit together"?

I thought mushrooms dissolved ego, but what you are saying strikes me as filled with ego.

> I thought mushrooms dissolved ego, but what you are saying strikes me as filled with ego

This is the case with everyone I've ever talked to about this. If anything it seems to be an ego boost more than an ego death, though I doubt thats as much the mushrooms as much as it is the person

The lack of self-awareness in this screed is remarkable. Stay woke and better than the 'other' oh enlightened one.

> We enjoyed when our food is delivered from any restaurant we asked, we enjoyed traveling to other places and generating CO2 along the way.

Huh? Delivery drivers are generating CO2. And while I certainly enjoyed the service, I do not enjoy the ridiculous price premium thats being charged along with it

Chances are any form of travel commonly taken generates more CO2 - not just delivery drivers.

It is a seriously weird how common rhetoric to pretend only tech companies entering into a consumer space generate CO2 at all - as seen with Amazon and food delivery companies.

Really the food isn't having a premium attached to it - it is actually being subsidized by investors who expect to make up their losses with increased volume. It would be even more expensive with a sustainable business model.

How the hell are current markups unsustainable? I don't know how many deliveries the average driver does in a day but it can't be more than a few bucks worth of their time. Yet somehow my receipts are marked up 30-50%, in a myriad of different ways: service fees, convenience fees, invisible markups on menu items...

Convenience is not worth that much to me. I really wish it wasn't worth so much to others

> we enjoyed traveling to other places and generating CO2 along the way.

by travel I meant travel by airplane

And some companies promote people with kids above people without them. It cuts both ways.

Hey opx9,

I do apologise if my use of the word "we" caused anger. At the same time I'm happy you took the time to respond—it seems you're passionate about this point so I want to know more.

Why do you say it's a small group? It seems to me it's a pretty large group across the West.

Then, you claim it's biological traits. Does that mean everybody has them?

Finally, what's the alternative? How could one get unstuck? Or maybe a better question would be: what are the traits of those that are not part of the group that has these traits?

The way I see it, is that it's good to have diversity and not push too hard on a norm that doesn't suit everyone, and it's not a solution to attack the norm and swing the pendulum in the other direction, because that will probably do equally much damage, just to a different group of people. Striving for achievement is not bad, but striving for conformity and validation from peer pressure and norms, is bad.

> Then, you claim it's biological traits. Does that mean everybody has them?

I don't understand your logic. If I say someone has the biological trait being very tall, apparently it means NOT everybody has it.

I don't understand your logic. OP was asking a question, which you answered. Questions are merely requests for logical explanations, and therefore, not always logical themselves.

Ah interesting point. I meant it more like: height is a trait, some are tall, others short.

I see what you mean though. I guess that might also be how opx9 meant it.