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Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by winternett on Sunday November 14, 2021 @01:25AM (#29215728)
Just think about all the development and financial data and ideas that google has a direct untraceable back door into through running gmail, android phones, and chrome browser alone...

I have resorted to using an old school notepad for my development ideas pretty much. A software company I used to work for got shuttered just 3 months after a big software company paid the startup a visit to observe operations back in 98, I've always been wary of corporate espionage since.

Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by rapnie on Sunday November 14, 2021 @02:31AM (#29215907)
It always completely astounded me how countless professional businesses are casually and mindlessly handing over their most private internal communication and metrics to Google on a platter. And aren't Google's privacy policies and ToS's stating that all collected information can be used to "improve their own services" or something along those lines? Does that include 'extract business advantage' from your data? I don't know and IANAL, but I'd prefer some separation from such an ad-tech giant with my corporate intelligence.
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by ReaLNero on Sunday November 14, 2021 @03:01AM (#29215999)
(Not a Google engineer)

Google's engineers are notoriously loose-lipped (which is a good thing!!!). There's no way they would be able to keep a secret like this. Anytime a customer's private data gets accessed, you either a) need approval by someone or b) "break the glass", which is only reserved for oncall fires. Either way, it gets audited.

The only way I would believe something like this is if an executive/higher up requests data access, gets it, and the person auditing looks the other way.

Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by freeflight on Sunday November 14, 2021 @07:02AM (#29216732)
So Google has all the "checks&balances" in place, and corporate managed to turn them into a flawless and perfect system?

And the source for that claim is not even a Google engineer, but apparently somebody who heard how Google engineers are "notoriously loose-lipped".

From which loose-lipped Google engineer did you get that information about "needing approval", "breaking glass" and "audits"?

> The only way I would believe something like this is if an executive/higher up requests data access, gets it, and the person auditing looks the other way.

It's much easier to believe once you remember how Google actually makes its money [0].

In that context it not only becomes believable, but it actually fits perfectly into their MO [1].

[0] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/google-says-it-doesnt-...

[1] https://www.theregister.com/2016/03/09/google_ventures_yield...

Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by joshuamorton on Sunday November 14, 2021 @04:40PM (#29220996)
[I work at Google]

Your first link explains how Google doesn't actually give your data to anyone else. Your second link is about a company that Google Ventures invested in. The equivalent would be that some company claims a YC-backed startup stole some of their IP, and that somehow YC is at fault, which is silly. Google isn't even a party to the lawsuit (further, it's not clear that the company who sued even won and to an extent it looks like they might be a patent troll).

> From which loose-lipped Google engineer did you get that information about "needing approval", "breaking glass" and "audits"?

A bunch of it is public: https://cloud.google.com/access-transparency. Access Transparency provides the access logs to the customer, and Access Approvals allows a cloud customer to prevent Google from accessing their data without approval from the company. But yes, you could also go searching HN for discussion of these topics and probably find quite a lot from people.

Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by freeflight on Monday November 15, 2021 @05:47AM (#29225907)
> Your first link explains how Google doesn't actually give your data to anyone else.

Nobody said Google "gives data away", the article explains how Google monetizes the data.

> Access Approvals allows a cloud customer to prevent Google from accessing their data without approval from the company

All Access Approval does is prevent individual Google employees from accessing the data, which is not the same as "Google as a whole". It also seems to have a long list of Google services were it does not apply as no AT logs are created or other exceptions apply.

And while that might be nice, it's neither special, nor does it change the nature of Google's business, it's just virtue signaling and building plausible deniability along the lines of "We really do care about privacy! At least in as so far as we don't want to get regulated!"

You know, just like claiming how Google "doesn't give data away", when in reality it very much sells all the useful insights, said data gives, to the highest bidder.

Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by dannyw on Sunday November 14, 2021 @04:46AM (#29216290)
How does Google respond to secret FISA orders which by law cannot be audited or known by anyone but the direct receiver and one pre-screened attorney?
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by judge2020 on Sunday November 14, 2021 @10:01AM (#29217534)
Most businesses on Google Workspace don’t see the US government as an adversary. If they do, they encrypt things or don’t use Workspace.
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by dannyw on Sunday November 14, 2021 @11:45AM (#29218343)
That's not my point. My point is by law Google must have secret and extremely challenging to audit processes for accessing user data, which can be abused for corporate espionage.
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by extropy on Sunday November 14, 2021 @11:43AM (#29218316)
This. If US government on your things to worry about list, you host in Russia Cloud or China Cloud. Or roll your own data center in some non US allied country.
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by VRay on Monday November 15, 2021 @06:44AM (#29226295)
The whole point of the thread is that a shady executive could use the same backdoor processes to get whatever he wants in an untraceable fashion, the same way that our trustworthy and noble government does
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by capableweb on Sunday November 14, 2021 @03:13AM (#29216024)
The last case of ad bidding proves that while not everyone at Google knows whats going on, they are abusing the data they are sitting on.
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by extropy on Sunday November 14, 2021 @11:44AM (#29218333)
Which case is that?
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by somehnacct3757 on Sunday November 14, 2021 @07:53AM (#29216918)
You can perform these analyses with 'anonymized' data to both observe the broad trends across a huge dataset, and still claim you haven't invaded privacy.

With the scale of surveillance data available to Google, this is how they have their cake and eat it too.

Once you know that note-taking apps (e.g.) are a hugely growing space, it's easy to use publicly available data to find the startups making a splash. Not once did Google's data tell them Startup X is an acquihire target. And yet, here they are at Startup X's door.

Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by CamelCaseName on Sunday November 14, 2021 @09:32AM (#29217390)
Sure, but that sounds much better than Google peaking into Startup X's emails and determining how much runway they have left, how management feels about their ability to succeed, etc.
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by underwater on Sunday November 14, 2021 @04:44AM (#29216284)
That's assuming that there isn't another back channel to access that data.

And even if they don't access file or email content, metadata like access data like Play Store performance, Google searches for competing products, and Google Analytics data, might seem like fair game.

Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by Zababa on Sunday November 14, 2021 @12:00PM (#29218483)
I'm not sure that's true. For example the video about serving 5 petabytes of data took 11 years to come out: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29082014
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by BiteCode_dev on Sunday November 14, 2021 @10:26AM (#29217731)
"It's to fight terrorism, don't tell anyone"
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by amelius on Sunday November 14, 2021 @07:27AM (#29216818)
Who says Google doesn't have some secret group with security clearance, and only top management knows of its existence?
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by ThePowerOfDirge on Sunday November 14, 2021 @07:36AM (#29216846)
You missspelled Baidu and CCP there.
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by roenxi on Sunday November 14, 2021 @06:26AM (#29216626)
Google employs a huge number of engineers. It can assemble a very tight lipped group of people if it wants to.
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by mancerayder on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @07:30PM (#29248083)
Infosec teams that are competent tend to push back on that.

If there's no infosec and it's just infra and developers and CTO's signing contracts with vendors, even Google, you have an issue.

Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by da39a3ee on Sunday November 14, 2021 @10:18AM (#29217667)
That's not what the comment you're replying to is talking about. They may not be trusted to control a marketplace, doesn't mean we have to entertain silly conspiracy theories about them reading your google docs! As another comment says below, there is no way that can be happening because google engineers would not keep it secret! Regarding your paper notepad, I keep paper by my laptop also, it's a nice medium. But seriously, to think it's protecting you against IP espionage is (a) tinfoil hat territory and (b) almost certainly a massive overestimation of your IP. You don't want to go through life miscalibrated in this regard; apart from anything else it will confuse those for whom you are a role model.
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by pjmlp on Sunday November 14, 2021 @02:58AM (#29215987)
You forgot Chromebooks, that everyone around here is so eager to advocate, basically running their business on Google's infrastructure.
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by squarefoot on Sunday November 14, 2021 @04:04AM (#29216168)
I would advocate Chromebooks and Chromeboxes only because once I remove the bootloader protection, flash the coreboot firmware and install whichever OS I want, from my point of view they're wonderful little machines. But from normal users perspective, once they discover that the hardware is locked to prevent the install of anything but ChromeOS, they are garbage, and probably it is what they become once the user has enough of the Google ecosystem then ditch them well before their physical obsolescence. Locking down hardware to prevent installation of other operating systems should become illegal.
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by j-bos on Sunday November 14, 2021 @12:54PM (#29218970)
Do you recommend any guides for removing the bootloader protection?
Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by squarefoot on Sunday November 14, 2021 @08:17PM (#29222491)
To my knowledge, this one is the best detailed and covers most devices.

https://mrchromebox.tech/

Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by ChuckNorris89 on Sunday November 14, 2021 @06:00AM (#29216534)
>You forgot Chromebooks, that everyone around here is so eager to advocate

Got a source for that?

Re:U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google by pjmlp on Sunday November 14, 2021 @07:08AM (#29216754)