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Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by 3pt14159 on Monday November 01, 2021 @10:28AM (#29066988)
I'm Canadian.

The reason the press focusses on it so much is that it is, thus far, the only real step that the west is taking against Chinese hegemony. It's expensive and it's real. The rest of Cold War 2.0 hasn't really started yet. A couple of Mikes, a couple of tariffs, sure, but realistically if we really snap into a true standoff with China it's going to absolutely devastate the world's total economic output and stability.

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by creaturemachine on Monday November 01, 2021 @10:38AM (#29067117)
Same here, and I wonder if the abduction of the two Mikes and the totally-unrelated Meng affair had the same impact on Americans as it did for us.
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by secondaryacct on Monday November 01, 2021 @11:43AM (#29068244)
I'm Chinese and writing from a Huawei phone, and the Meng affair is frankly ridiculous: kidnapping those two guys, probably "sort of spies" and not just random teenage students you'll agree pretending this had nothing to do with Meng then freeing them up immediately after was impressive both in boldness and stupidity - we could maybe have the strength to own up rather than act like weasels non stop.

That said, helping Iran shouldn't be a crime until they actually pose a tangible threat, and at my little level, I think the US is being way too strict on them, and I dont dislike Huawei trying to help them... as long as we're able to control the risk and focus them rather than have it blow up in our face "US in Afghanistan"-style.

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by elliekelly on Monday November 01, 2021 @11:12AM (#29067699)
Can you elaborate on the two Mikes? I’m somehow entirely unfamiliar with what you’re referring to.
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by tempest_ on Monday November 01, 2021 @11:30AM (#29068031)
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by umanwizard on Monday November 01, 2021 @06:59PM (#29074401)
It had zero impact on the vast majority of Americans.
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by 908B64B197 on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:10PM (#29070563)
> the abduction of the two Mikes

What's incredible is how submissive Trudeau was.

The charges were completely made-up yet he couldn't secure their release for three years. That's weak.

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by analyst74 on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:57PM (#29071280)
He was stuck between the rock and a hard place.

It's like your daddy wants you to take the neighbourhood bully's toy, so you stole his toy, and now the bully came and took two of yours. What are you supposed to do?

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by dv_dt on Monday November 01, 2021 @10:36AM (#29067101)
The odd part is removing equipment after the fact is the most expensive way to reduce the risk. If one were serious about it governments should be reintroducing industrial investment policies encouraging investments over longer then 1-3yr time spans.
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by twofornone on Monday November 01, 2021 @10:32AM (#29067039)
>The rest of Cold War 2.0 hasn't really started yet

I suspect it has been raging for some time now, online, by bots and so called shills in the form of information warfare.

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by jacquesm on Monday November 01, 2021 @10:51AM (#29067307)
It's been going for well over a decade, and it's intensifying.
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by 3pt14159 on Monday November 01, 2021 @11:09AM (#29067640)
When I say "hasn't really started yet" I really mean it. China gutted Nortel here in Canada, and they've been hacking and ripping off IP wherever they can, but realistically this is nothing close to the scale of the Cold War. They've been biding their time and playing down their capabilities. Holding relatively small numbers of nuclear weapons and largely focussing on building soft power through investment ala belt and road over real power projection that the Soviets or Nato have done. That's starting to change, but it's not a real Cold War until the business class gets nervous going over the boarder and right now they're still piling into China.
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by nebula8804 on Monday November 01, 2021 @12:20PM (#29068857)
China has hundreds of EV car startups and it appears that they are reaching the capability of making half decent cars. When these cars enter places like the US market, they are going to decimate the competition. We should probably expect an invasion of Chinese cars in the next few years.

For example:

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_e2

This car looks like a decent entry level car, 190-250 Miles. starting at around ~16k. Even if it sells for 25k in the US, it seems like good value.

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by omgwtfbyobbq on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:02PM (#29070441)
NEDC range is about 80% of EPA range, so that would probably be ~150-200 miles of range if it sold in the US.

$16k is great though. The base Nissan Leaf is $27k for 150 miles. At the same time, I'm not sure how much importing it would raise that. If, like you said, it sells for $25k in the US, that's a decent value if it's other features are comparable to a base Leaf, but I don't think it would decimate the competition.

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by Goety on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:21PM (#29071649)
Yup. Weird connections with Tesla.
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by throwaway210222 on Monday November 01, 2021 @01:09PM (#29069686)
> When these cars enter places like the US market, they are going to decimate the competition.

Surely they will then become national security threats?

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by ge96 on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:26PM (#29071727)
Wonder if they had autopiloting built into them, could control them across the ocean.
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by dragontamer on Monday November 01, 2021 @12:58PM (#29069487)
The 1980s wasn't called the "Cold War era" because Japan suddenly gave us nice cars. The USA welcomes economic competition with foreign rivals. May the best car win.

The issue is that China is beginning to aggressively take out interest in Democracies in their sphere: first Hong Kong, and everyone knows that Taiwan is in their crosshairs now.

We didn't (and wouldn't) go to war over Hong Kong. Taiwan however... that's different and is truly a serious threat.

---------

If anything: additional trade and cultural exchanges are needed to foster a spirit of competition / cooperation even in the face of our nuclear weapons being trained upon each other. We don't really know if the Moscow Circus prevented a US / Soviet nuclear exchange... but maybe it did??

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by nebula8804 on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:24PM (#29071694)
EVs may be a winner take all market in the sense that there is a lot of software and tech that the incumbents (except Tesla) are traditionally bad at. If the market expects this it may take a long time for incumbents to catch up. We might see bankruptcies and consolidation. Auto manufacturing is the final large manufacturing industry left in the US and it going away will hurt the country dearly.
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by heavyset_go on Monday November 01, 2021 @08:28PM (#29075287)
> That's starting to change, but it's not a real Cold War until the business class gets nervous going over the boarder and right now they're still piling into China.

It's sad, but this is one of the only avenues I can imagine that will bring real benefits and change for a lot of Americans.

Post-WWII, the ownership class had to offer a good deal compared to the Soviets, lest they risk communism coming for them, too. They had to provide working people opportunity and had to help build a thriving middle class in order to stave off sympathy and collaboration with the USSR.

Today, if owners don't want Americans to be bribed by the CCP into spying for them and handing over the IP they own, they're going to have to offer Americans another good deal in comparison. That's my optimistic take, but I can also see jackboot tactics being implemented instead of raising Americans' standards of living.

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by smolder on Tuesday November 02, 2021 @01:55PM (#29084922)
I don't think we can afford to raise standards of living across the US, in the sense of giving them more spending power. People will spend the money on lots of fossil fuel derived things.
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by 908B64B197 on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:17PM (#29070683)
> China gutted Nortel here in Canada

Didn't Nortel go under because of accounting fraud?

Huawei only started releasing competing products years after Nortel went bankrupt.

[dead]
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by tick_tock_tick on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:09PM (#29071465)
Yes, and so what?? Find me a Western nation that would really take China over the USA. Do you really believe a world under a Chinese hegemony would be better?
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by justicezyx on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:23PM (#29071675)
The point is that we should get rid of hegemony and build a democratic international society. Not that letting someone replace USA...

Of course Chinese hegemony is no better. Any hegemony is no better than another...

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by nlittlepoole on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:52PM (#29072102)
Yeah but that's realistically not an option that is on the table. A decent part of the American electorate is not interested in that because honestly it doesn't benefit us directly. The choices today for most countries are the same as it was in 1945, side with the US, side with the communist, or be "non aligned" and have your government/infrastructure undermined by intelligence from both sides.
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by justicezyx on Monday November 01, 2021 @08:57PM (#29075510)
Why aiming for international democracy is not an option?

You didn't explain that.

And please, stop using communists to refer to anything on earth. There is no such thing as communist nowadays. If you think there is a communist in China, that person probably will be shunned as one would be in USA...

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by ravel-bar-foo on Monday November 01, 2021 @11:35PM (#29076659)
What is international democracy? We currently have the UN, but in practice it draws on the resources of the US to enforce its decisions (such as Iran sanctions).

So what system do you have to propose, and how is it better? Remember that your explanation must explain how International Democracy avoids interacts with conflict between nations, how it maintains the global economy, in particular the safety of the shipping lanes and banking systems / currency exchanges. You must be able to adjudicate border disputes and prevent large nations from claiming large swaths of sea as territory. You must be able to explain how your system avoids becoming a tyranny of the richest, strongest, or most cunning states, as well as how it remains stable and doesn't become anarchy.

Good luck.

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by justicezyx on Tuesday November 02, 2021 @12:10AM (#29076961)
International democracy is just what it denotes on the name, applying democracy principles between nations.

As the first step, let's make sure everyone goes through UN for any cross national conflict. Like if US unilaterally invade Iraq, US should be sanctioned according to some agreed upon rules. Etc etc.

When you say UN works because of US support, that's a problem. UN needs to hold actual power, not at the mercy of a few super powers.

One step to allow UN actual power, is to grant UN the ability to draft financial resources from member nations, and let UN invest on the behalf of all people on earth.

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by echlebek on Monday November 01, 2021 @12:25PM (#29068937)
Whataboutism. Canada has little to fear from US hegemony and a lot to fear from Chinese hegemony, it's as simple as that.
Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by throwaway21_ on Monday November 01, 2021 @12:45PM (#29069276)
Nobody cares what Canada fears or not.

Simple fact is that there's no Chinese hegemony now and there won't be one in foreseeable future because there's existing hegemon that won't just give up.

btw one man's whataboutism is another man's uncovering of hypocrisy.

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by tick_tock_tick on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:11PM (#29071493)
> btw one man's whataboutism is another man's uncovering of hypocrisy.

They didn't say anything about the USA hegemony being bad just that they didn't want a Chinese one. How is that hypocrisy?

Re:U.S. telecoms are going to start physically removing Huaw... by 908B64B197 on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:09PM (#29070540)
> and ignoring 750 US bases worldwide and all the misery they brought all around the world

The alternative being Russian (or rather, USSR) bases.

Yeah, pretty sure citizens of the countries with bases would rather have the US as a partner rather than the alternative.