I'm a big proponent of vegetarianism, and I think there's a lot of value in these "transitional meats." I've convinced one friend to vegetarianism over the years by cooking "meat-like" replacements for them... this is the type of person who might say "oh I've considered it before, but I could never give up hamburgers" to a vegetarian.

Overall if the goal is meat reduction, then it's a win if you can get someone to occasionally buy a transitional meat instead of the real thing.

I've had more luck trying to get people to eat plant-based meat-likes than cricket-based foods, anyway.

I'm a proponent of eating animals - and I don't think there's a lot of value in these fake meats.

But hear me out.

We eat too much meat and I loathe the industrial complex that supplies 'technically meat' - at the expense of it actually being good and the lack of welfare that brought that price down. The average turkey is tofu-taste with suffering. Nobody should want this (and I genuinely don't see how anybody enjoys eating it).

On the converse, a grass-fed, heritage breed, 28 day aged cow rib-eye is amazing. Not cheap, it shouldn't be cheap, it should be a rare treat - is amazing, and I'm not giving that up.

What I dislike about the "tech startups selling fake-meat" is that they're treating us like fuck-wits. #press-release Burger King is now selling our patty, only available at BK!! Nobody who cares about their food was going to BK in the first place. Saying "BK customers can't tell the difference" is a f'in low bar.

Sorry, I'm meandering. I just meant that the world is full of amazing vegetarian/vegan food - homemade hummus, pitta and roasted veg. Might be my favourite meal. Few toasted pine-nuts chef's-kiss Switch up to vegetarian and there's even more amazing choice and dishes.

What we should be pushing is that a felafel-burger is amazing. BK selling a beetroot coloured chemical concoction and telling us their customers can't taste the difference, is not a 'win'

So I agree with you conceptually, that would be a better way to eat meat and I'd likely join in if that were our reality. But I think you may be overestimating how daring Americans are with food... or just how familiar they are with food in general.

A lot of the country has almost a toddler-like relationship with food. They like what they like and you have to practically shove it down their throats to get them to try anything new... just look at the restaurant options available in some parts of rural america... they're basically large chains microwaving frozen foods (at least the south gets exposure to some authentic mexican food and barbeque... the midwest is... well... limited)

People literally die because they will not eat healthier to save their lives. It's not at all unusual for a diabetic person to lose a limb and still not change their diet.

I'd wager that a meat-like replacement that tastes enough like meat and looks like meat will be more successful than anything on the BK menu containing the word falafel. It's like tricking children to eat healthier by putting a food they don't want to try into a fun shape.

I'm only an infrequent visitor to the states - but I feel you're selling your country short.

Everywhere I've been, there's been an immigrant selling their food - first place I randomly had Ethiopian food for example. But also my first Tamale, which seemed pretty normalized.

I think people not being able to cook, is maybe the hurdle we need to clear - or not having the confidence to cook. My mum let me help out, I got taught at school - not to any great standard, but enough to instill in me the confidence that after a few tries you can make anything you want (and now I have fun seasonal arguments when I produce a meat thermometer and ask her to stop killing it)

Typing that actually helped me out. It's not that I have an issue with meat substitues - it's that they seem to be pasting over the symptom, and missing the cure. Getting somebody to buy their Beyond-Meat-Patty from BK is good, but it would be better if they cooked themselves, or picked up something from their local-vegetarian-Indian restaurant - "STOP GOING TO BK"

Whole Beyond Meat thing seems to be some weird stop-gap - filling a cheap-meat hole. "Just Stop Eating Cheap Meat"

I mean... I'm American, and I don't think they're selling us short.

>Whole Beyond Meat thing seems to be some weird stop-gap - filling a cheap-meat hole. "Just Stop Eating Cheap Meat"

For a variety of reasons (if nothing else, even just economics wise) this is unlikely to ever happen in America.

At the very least, we lose nothing by trying to solve the problem both ways - substitutes for the low end of eating to move people who wouldn't otherwise move, and better education/skills/etc for the general range of the population where it's lacking.

Meat consumption reduction to 2-4 meals a week feels ok. Some cheese and eggs other days. This is totally bearable.

What I feel is really detrimental is the fitness culture pushing for no carbs and 2 grams of proteins per kg of body weight.

If fitness culture were the main problem I think we'd be ok. Most people in the US are not even remotely fit.

The other end seems much more common... we've got big boxes of cheap frozen hamburgers sold in supermarkets that consist largely of beef heart, tongue, and whatever other garbage is left behind. The baseline for what consists of meat in the US is almost literally what's swept off the floor.

Beyond beef and impossible have been successful because meat eaters are willing to choose them and like them.

Put another way, can't you learn to like an all meat diet without sneaking in vegetables or making them seem like non-meat? (Well, no, you like what you like, and you probably won't make huge changes without incentive).

Personally I don't know of anyone who eats the fake beef in my social circle. They are pretty horrific when you look at the ingredients: Tertiary butylhydroquinone, Erythosine, Propylene glycol, Ferric orthophosphate. Ugh.

But lentils, carrots, potatos, brocolli, peas, beans, onions, mushrooms, nuts -- that's fantastic.

One real downside of Beyond/Impossible is that every restaurant I've been to that had a decent plant-based burger (i.e, their own veggie patty) has just switched to ordering one of the big two.

Stuff tastes less interesting now.

+ Tertiary butylhydroquinone - anti-oxodant, found in crackers

+ Erythosine - Red No3, found in basically all red foods

+ Propylene glycol - found in peanut butter, eye drops

+ Ferric orthophosphate aka Iron Phosphate - used to treat anemia ,found in your multivitamin

My feeling is that "meat appreciators" aren't choosing them. They're being eaten by people who just default to a meat a their protein of choice - and we'd be better off pushing something that's non-meat and tastes better.

I mean just consider the 'vegeburgers' these places previously sold. There was clearly no attempt/inclination previously - and I feel the meat substitutes now offered come with as much care.

Say what you will about the consumers, but making plant-based food that appeals to them is a worthy goal.

I like meat. It sucks, because I recognize the ethical implications of eating meat. I tried being vegan briefly and I dearly missed eggs.

Saying "existing vegetarian food is good enough, let's not see what else we can do, everyone should just get over it" seems a bit silly to me.

Traditional vegetarian diets allow for eggs. Vegetarian and vegan mean different things.

Your extremist attempt to go from presumably a meat-centered diet to absolutely no animal products at all is not really a counterpoint to anything I've said.

> Traditional vegetarian diets allow for eggs. Vegetarian and vegan mean different things.

Yes... I'm aware. That's why I said vegan.

> Your extremist attempt to go from presumably a meat-centered diet to absolutely no animal products at all is not really a counterpoint to anything I've said.

Your post was hardly a formal argument to be taken down through rigor. You said you don't "get this trend", saying that there are already good vegetarian meals. I explained that I would like more vegetarian meals to replace things like eggs.

If you think this wasn't a "counterpoint", examine your own post first.

It wouldn't surprise me if this were less about saving the planet and more about hedging against the possibility that factory farming ceases to be sustainable such that prices for real meat increase enormously. Such a circumstance would create a huge new market for relatively inexpensive meat substitutes, competing on palatability probably far more than nutrition.

Yes, someone with more business sense than me who is also more invested in turning a profit smells money. That's basically the real reason it gets done.

If people really want to save the planet and eat less meat as part of that goal, there are better ways to achieve that. But those ways tend to be harder to monetize effectively than creating a product that inflexible, overprivileged people will snap up and feel virtuous about.

Are meat eaters the target audience here? I was always under the impression that the target audience was vegetarians that longed for a burger et al.

As a meat eater, I can't imagine myself ever even trying a plant-based "meat" product. If I want veggies, I eat veggies. If I want meat, I eat meat. I know, crazy.