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Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by asdfasgasdgasdg on Monday September 27, 2021 @08:33AM (#28669859)
After reading this article, I am now informed that there has been a price rise in natural gas. My next question is why? Demand must be up, or supply must be down, or both. What's driving the changes in supply and demand? For example, this article says China has imported 2x as much LNG as last year, but still doesn't have enough. How is that even possible?
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by kasperni on Monday September 27, 2021 @08:39AM (#28669922)
Nothing conclusive, but some believe it is Russia squeezing the prices [1][2]. In order to get Nord Stream 2 started.

[1] https://www.ft.com/content/5ec6b18d-c855-408d-acad-cb5779d10...

[2] https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/us-blame-russia...

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by Iwan-Zotow on Monday September 27, 2021 @10:12AM (#28670856)
Russia fulfilled each and every contract, as said in above mentioned articles
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by jeltz on Monday September 27, 2021 @12:47PM (#28673014)
That does not contradict that theory. If they fulfilled their end the more reason to put pressure on Germany.
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by croes on Monday September 27, 2021 @02:29PM (#28674213)
Russia delivered what was ordered and the price is way lower than the current one.

"Gazprom Germania is keeping a low profile when asked about the reasons for the largely empty Rehden storage facility. Injection and withdrawal volumes were carried out by customers, a spokesman said in response to a query. "Therefore, we also cannot forecast how the development will look in the future."

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by Iwan-Zotow on Monday September 27, 2021 @01:02PM (#28673236)
Pressure Germany WITH WHAT exactly? I failed to see how one could pressure Germany, and WHY Germans won't report that "pressure"
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by throwaway832939 on Monday September 27, 2021 @05:33PM (#28676294)
Just passing on what I've read...

They want Germany to fire up Nord Stream 2, from which point onwards they can say "as seen in 2021, we can't meet your needs without it" and it never turns off again

https://archive.is/Dt0FH

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by Iwan-Zotow on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @11:41AM (#28684117)
Problem with this theory is that Germany is getting gas in full compliance with contracts and actually at lower long-term prices than spot ones.

How Germany could be pressured (with NS-2 or without it)? With what?

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by masswerk on Monday September 27, 2021 @09:14AM (#28670250)
However, another super power promised that it would satisfy any demands. So that can't be it… ;-)
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by dtech on Monday September 27, 2021 @08:36AM (#28669893)
Several reasons are given in the article. Hydro and wind are down, nuclear is being phased out, coal plants are converted to gas, among others.
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by asdfasgasdgasdg on Monday September 27, 2021 @08:38AM (#28669917)
Sure, but I would expect those to be part of forecasted long term trends, and thus to be priced in gradually. I wouldn't expect an acute shortage to result from these reasons. (I mean clearly my expectations are wrong given what is happening but this doesn't match my prior understanding of how things are supposed to work.)

I wonder if this type of event will presage a shift back to nuclear for Europe. Nuclear and renewable are basically Europe's only options for energy independence. A price rise like this might make them rethink their current fuel mix.

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by sentinel on Monday September 27, 2021 @11:27AM (#28671838)
About coal: 2030 seems to be the deadline to close all coal burning power plants in Europe. Every year more coal power plants will be shut down. This year was a deadline year for some countries in the EU.

It was all a long term plan, but poorly executed.

Nuclear would be great. I’m not sure how many reactors are gen 2 or gen 3. Gen 2 reactors are still risky.

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by jdhn on Monday September 27, 2021 @08:43AM (#28669964)
Unless all the heat in Europe switches over to electric powered, you're still going to have natgas crunches from time to time during the winter.
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by fmajid on Monday September 27, 2021 @10:42AM (#28671210)
The French government is massively subsidizing conversions from oil or gas furnaces to heat pumps, and their electricity is majority nuclear.
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by raxxorrax on Monday September 27, 2021 @09:43AM (#28670549)
Supply of gas isn't endangered currently, on the contrary. There are parties competing to sell ressources.

What drives energy prices in central Europe are investments in changing the infrastructure to renewable. Yes, that isn't cheap. But not really a crisis in the common sense. Some people would like to see the gas prices inflated perhaps.

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by nicoburns on Monday September 27, 2021 @08:54AM (#28670077)
This will happen eventually for climate change reasons, but I think it's going to take a while.
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by Iwan-Zotow on Monday September 27, 2021 @10:13AM (#28670870)
> thus to be priced in gradually

well, then, it is priced in, maybe just not that gradually

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by fsslrisrchr on Monday September 27, 2021 @01:09PM (#28673337)
" I wouldn't expect an acute shortage to result from these reasons. (I mean clearly my expectations are wrong given what is happening but this doesn't match my prior understanding of how things are supposed to work.)"

Coal is actually pretty important to smooth out energy. There was something fascinating I learned during the Texas outage last year. At the time I was privy to private exchange emails among power engineers.

One engineer explained that one of the problems they were having is that, with the closing of coal plants, the reliability of the grid goes down. And with a very good reason: You can store a massive pile of coal next to the plant for (basically) free [1].

oil, by comparison, is expensive to store, natgas more expensive still. What happens is, in the winter, the pressure of the natgas lines goes down as consumers drive up their thermostats. Therefore, natgas plants can't deliver the power required beacuse the gas isn't there. So, in the N. East of the USA where there are nasty cold snaps, power operators have piles of coal ready to be burned in coal plants.

Most of the power is still from natgas throughout the year, but coal bails you out when it gets super cold (note, the midwest doesn't need this because it's always nastily cold there -> the natgas lines are built accordingly).

[1] Some, having read the popular press explanations of the outage, will complain that renewables delivered 90% of what was requested. That's true, but only half of the story. The 90% figure was a de-rated amount of energy [2]. Basically dispatchers knew that renewables weren't going to deliver and adjusted their predictions accordingly. The blackout happened, therefore, because the power source that was expected to show up and deliver in this situation tripped over itself. There's no doubt natgas can deliver - it does every winter in the North - but it can't if it's not implemented properly, or if there's not enough gas pressure in the lines to deal with a massive sure.

[2] None of this is meant to be a dismissal of renewable energy. Texas leads in renewables, and why shouldn't they? It's a resource that (can) cleans up our environment. But i power we can't treat things like panaceas and have to be realistic about where we stand.

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by imtringued on Monday September 27, 2021 @09:03AM (#28670151)
Raw renewable share:

Month August,September

2021: 52%,40%

2020: 48%,44%

2019: 46%,48%

2018: 38%,41%

The thing about gas is that you can store it. If August produces too much you can use less gas in August and use it in September. If you take both months they average to 46% which is the same as 2020. 10% less renewables in this specific month isn't enough to cause price explosions especially when the previous month had been at an all time high.

Data: https://energy-charts.info/charts/renewable_share/chart.htm?...

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by Ekaros on Monday September 27, 2021 @11:03AM (#28671500)
I have understood that storing gas and even reducing production by a lot is not exactly simple process at scales we use it. Same goes for oil.
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by belorn on Monday September 27, 2021 @09:19AM (#28670298)
It is important to note that construction of wind farms is not down. 2020 had an increase in capacity of 20 GW with $31 billion of investment in offshore wind alone.
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by Macha on Monday September 27, 2021 @09:36AM (#28670476)
It's less about quantity of wind plants being built, but a unusually long period of quiet weather has led to output being down significantly from those already in place at time where gas was the only option to pick up the slack.
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by jillesvangurp on Monday September 27, 2021 @12:10PM (#28672518)
I doubt the amount of megawatts add up to this simplistic conclusion of this being because of renewables failing us or Europe abandoning nuclear. Plenty of wind here in Germany in the last few weeks. Hydro in Norway is a thing but it's actually not that big of a portion of the grid across Europe and the output is fairly stable. Nuclear has been on the decline for many years but not that many plants actually shut down recently. It certainly pales in comparison to the amount of wind/solar coming online every year. Coal decline is much more significant since the amount of that disappearing from grids is a lot higher in recent years.

The amount of gas usage for electricity production isn't actually increasing that much either because coal capacity is actually mostly being replaced with renewable energy instead. There are maybe a few new gas plants coming online recently but overall the proportion of gas is barely growing in the European electricity market (unlike renewables). E.g. Germany has actually seen a slight decrease in the overall amount of gas consumed over the last 20 years or so: https://www.statista.com/statistics/703657/natural-gas-consu...

However, the problem is not shortages or blackouts but high prices of gas specifically. There are no blackouts in Europe right now. Just people getting frustrated with having to pay more for their energy.

Partially the high prices are because of a global shift in demand and partially this is because of e.g. CO2 emission pricing, which is a thing in Europe. But a big part is also that Covid lockdown restrictions have been lifted in the last few months and economic activity and associated energy consumption is a lot higher all over the world. Large parts of Europe use gas for heating much more than for electricity. Gas shortages would be a problem for that reason specifically. So, I expect Russia will have a great year for gas exports as they will be able to charge a premium.

This report has a nice summary of the energy market in Europe last month: https://aleasoft.com/beyond-price-records-august-good-month-...

Wind in Germany was actually improving during August. Solar was pretty decent too though July was a bit off compared to previous years. It's autumn now so that usually means more wind and less solar. Lots of rain too. Good news for wind and hydro in other words. I'm not aware of any seasonally unusual drought or low wind predictions for the next few months.

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by onlyrealcuzzo on Monday September 27, 2021 @08:36AM (#28669895)
Because China isn't importing coal from Australia
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by gwright on Monday September 27, 2021 @12:17PM (#28672598)
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by taylodl on Monday September 27, 2021 @08:45AM (#28669983)
Why? Colder-than-average winter last year, warmer-than-average summer this year. Demand is holding steady, or even increasing, and Texas shut down supply during their freeze. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/why-the-natural-gas-...
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by sergeykish on Monday September 27, 2021 @01:02PM (#28673250)
Regarding Europe - Russian Federation wants additional leverage against Ukraine, to crush its economy. Recently Putin has claimed Ukraine transit would remain if it would disarm itself. That's words of occupant country to occupied country (15 thousands died, 1.5 millions have lost home).

RF has built NS2, purely political project, and now wants to certify it.

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by eptcyka on Monday September 27, 2021 @08:37AM (#28669909)
Coal plants are being shut down and there is a drive to resume economic activity (or even push harder to catch up) since covid is being managed better and there's plenty of pent-up demand to meet. That's how I see it, at least.
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by Ekaros on Monday September 27, 2021 @08:40AM (#28669935)
Also oil price is normalizing after period of low demand which drove it down. This might not be big impact directly, but it also affects in general.

And winter is coming, which means more demand for energy in general and less supply from solar specially.

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by raxxorrax on Monday September 27, 2021 @10:03AM (#28670745)
Germany has a mechanism to couple gas prices to oil prices, a contractual requirement to appease corporations building pipe lines.
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by bumbada on Monday September 27, 2021 @01:06PM (#28673294)
It is a complex issue. Usually gas is extracted as a byproduct of coal or even oil. No coal being extracted, no gas. No supply, big demand. Prices go up.

Also gas tankers have waited for years on the sea without entering port because of COVID. Lots of companies have gone under and the supply has been disrupted.

It takes months for a gas tanker to move and global transport right now is chaos.

Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by kragen on Monday September 27, 2021 @01:10PM (#28673348)
[citation needed]
Re:Europe’s energy crisis is about to go global as gas price... by gego on Monday September 27, 2021 @11:34AM (#28671949)
Entrepreneurs sold off supplies and want importers to offer more for cheap...