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Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by avianlyric on Thursday September 23, 2021 @04:54AM (#28626761)
Probably they think they can make the jump to a completely wireless phone before any USB-C mandates come in.

Apple's timing with the lighting port wasn't great, with it arriving just before USB-C, and I imagine they're very reluctant to change the port on their phones because people already have lightning cables everywhere.

Personally I would love to see USB-C on my iPhone, but I look at my parents, and having the port change for them would be a pain in the arse. All their cables are lightning cables, they don't have any USB-C devices, and ofcourse, all of their cables are the ones that came in the box. I suspect a significant portion of Apple's customers fall into that category.

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by amelius on Thursday September 23, 2021 @04:56AM (#28626772)
> Probably they think they can make the jump to a completely wireless phone before any USB-C mandates come in.

What is the efficiency of wireless charging?

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by iSnow on Thursday September 23, 2021 @05:07AM (#28626833)
Not great, but better than I personally expected: "Inductive charging is not as efficient as direct charging [...] An analysis of energy use found that charging a Pixel 4 from 0 to 100 percent on a classic cable used 14.26 Wh (watt-hours), while doing so with a wireless charger took 21.01 Wh, a 47 percent increase. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_charging

Of course problems like heating up the battery and the huge amount of power needed if everyone does it remain.

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by InsomniacL on Thursday September 23, 2021 @06:05AM (#28627207)
"900 million active iphones in use" - CFO Luca Maestri

14.26 Wh * 900000000 * 365 (days) = 4684 GWh/yr

46% = 2154 GWh/yr wasted energy

That's about the total energy output of Madagascar with a population of 27 million people.

There's a lot of reasons why the above numbers are wrong but I just wanted to highlight that at current efficiency, there would be a lot of wasted energy. :)

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by saddlerustle on Thursday September 23, 2021 @07:48AM (#28627873)
Thats about the energy demand of a single small aluminium smelter
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by elzbardico on Thursday September 23, 2021 @12:03PM (#28631083)
not exactly a lot of energy in the big scheme of things
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by jopsen on Thursday September 23, 2021 @04:07PM (#28634568)
Yeah, it's not so much efficiency.. phones don't have that big batteries anyways.

I would be more concerned about charging speed and heating.

Inefficiency implies heating :)

And wow, do I love charging my phone using my laptops USB-C charger.. it's just so fast!

I don't really see the appeal of wireless charging. Faster direct charging would be a bigger win, IMO.

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by avianlyric on Thursday September 23, 2021 @05:16AM (#28626895)
I did some maths (which maybe some should double check), but for an iPhone with a 12 wh battery. Doing a complete charge cycle everyday would consume an extra 5.6kwh over a year! Far more than I expected.
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by maccard on Thursday September 23, 2021 @05:27AM (#28626975)
or $0.70 per year at current energy prices.
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by zatarc on Thursday September 23, 2021 @06:45AM (#28627460)
Germany: hold my beer! 1.78€ or $2.09

But thats not point here. Everyone is talking about the climate change and then we want to charge millions or billions of phones with ~50% extra power?

Good idea!

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by maccard on Thursday September 23, 2021 @07:19AM (#28627681)
In absolute terms it's nothing though. An average household uses 4000 kWh of electricity in the UK (less than half of the average us household), so saving the 5kWh on 4 phones is a 0.5% saving, which is roughly equivalent to running your home boiler for 10 minutes per year. Turning off your thermostat for one evening would have the equivalent impact of not using a wireless charger for a century.
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by throw0101a on Thursday September 23, 2021 @07:45AM (#28627854)
> In absolute terms it's nothing though.

Symbols can hold power though.

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by maccard on Thursday September 23, 2021 @08:59AM (#28628464)
Do we not have enough symbols? Plastic bags, domestic recycling, plastic straws are all strong "symbols" and yet we're still fighting about a couple of kWh rather than making any meaningful change.
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by swebs on Thursday September 23, 2021 @12:14PM (#28631224)
Sure, as long as the electricity doesn't come from fossil fuels. Why not?
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by dbbk on Thursday September 23, 2021 @08:23AM (#28628154)
I see a lot of comments suggesting that Apple want to go fully wireless but it makes no practical sense to me. Their MagSafe charger not only charges far slower (as of now), but it's also huge. It's just not practical to ask someone to carry that around with them or take it when they go travelling.
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by amelius on Thursday September 23, 2021 @01:55PM (#28632677)
Also, next time EU will rephrase their law such that every device should really use the same charger (whether wired or wireless).
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by Kirby64 on Thursday September 23, 2021 @12:40PM (#28631592)
An interesting point to think about is that MagSafe appears to be about 75% efficient (due to alignment of coils from the magnets), but also the battery size on iPhones tends to be much smaller than competitor phones.

For example, Samsung S21 uses a 4000mAh battery. iPhone 12 Pro uses a 2700mAh battery.

At 75% efficiency, it's effectively like charging a 3600mAh battery.

Both likely get a full charge every day. So, even with less efficient charging, you come out ahead vs. a Samsung device.

That's also assuming efficiency of the actual charging bricks is similar. Apple tends to be known for high quality and efficient charger bricks, so it wouldn't surprise me if that has an impact.

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by amelius on Thursday September 23, 2021 @12:43PM (#28631636)
Still, throwing away 25% electricity because "minor convenience" is not such a great idea.
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by Kirby64 on Thursday September 23, 2021 @02:37PM (#28633282)
Sure, but let's say efficiency comes up to closer to like 85-90%, which should be achievable. Would you suggest that it's still not worthwhile? You'd never need to worry about damaging your charging port, since everything is now solid-state.

I know a few folks that moved to exclusively wireless charging because they broke the USB port on their phones over the years.

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by llampx on Thursday September 23, 2021 @05:36AM (#28627037)
It is terrible, adds heat and is worse for the environment. See any long-term review of the Magsafe wireless external stick-on battery for the iPhone.
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by avianlyric on Thursday September 23, 2021 @05:05AM (#28626817)
I'm not advocating for wireless charging, I'm simply answering the question posed.
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by oaiey on Thursday September 23, 2021 @05:15AM (#28626892)
Good luck believing that the next regulation in that spirit will not target wireless charging. The motivation on this regulation is the waste produced by endless stream of chargers. wired or not, does not make a difference in that thinking.

But it will give them some years.

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by dfcowell on Thursday September 23, 2021 @05:17AM (#28626906)
iPhones are already compatible with iQ charging, the dominant standard for this kind of thing.
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by p49k on Thursday September 23, 2021 @05:42AM (#28627080)
Only at the slow 7.5W speed. Despite the fact that MagSafe follows the 15W Qi standard, the iPhone will only charge at 15W with a MagSafe-branded device.

If Apple, for example placed both a USB-C and lightning port on future phones, but the charge speed of the USB was crippled, I’d argue that they wouldn’t be compliant with the EU regulation.

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by adamors on Thursday September 23, 2021 @06:08AM (#28627232)
But you cannot use a Qi charger for the Apple Watch.
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by gumby on Thursday September 23, 2021 @01:34PM (#28632390)
> Apple's timing with the lighting port wasn't great, with it arriving just before USB-C, and I imagine they're very reluctant to change the port on their phones because people already have lightning cables everywhere.

Apple was on the USB-design committee (and lightning experience informed the design) and knew all the timing. The standard wasn’t even finalized for quite some time after Apple started shipping lightning.

Lightning has now been around longer than the 30-pin connector, I really don’t understand Apple’s reluctance. I go of my way to by Type C devices for simplicity’s sake, though still have to travel with micro-A, Type C, lightning, and a special watch charger, grr. At least I have only one type of power brick.

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by GuB-42 on Thursday September 23, 2021 @05:21AM (#28626937)
Wireless charging is terrible from an energy efficiency standpoint. Considering that the standardization effort is supposed to be for the environment, and that includes energy efficiency requirements for chargers, I don't think switching to a less efficient charging method will be looked over kindly.

But it is Apple, who knows what they are going to do to avoid regulation.

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by onion2k on Thursday September 23, 2021 @05:16AM (#28626901)
I suspect a significant portion of Apple's customers fall into that category.

Existing customers, yes. Apple are probably trying to grow their market share though, which means they also need to consider those people who have usb cables too.

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by sildur on Thursday September 23, 2021 @06:35AM (#28627407)
That won't work. They will have to include an USB-C port, wireless charging or not.
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by cbo100 on Thursday September 23, 2021 @07:00AM (#28627555)
So due to the EU we will never have a port less phone of any brand?

That doesn’t sound right either.

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by dbbk on Thursday September 23, 2021 @08:24AM (#28628161)
A portless phone is not a good idea anyway.
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by cbo100 on Thursday September 23, 2021 @10:05PM (#28637877)
That’s beside the point. (And people said the same about headphone jacks, but look at them now)

Should a government be able to dictate the feature set of a class of devices?

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by dbbk on Friday September 24, 2021 @02:31AM (#28639247)
Yes they do it all the time
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by aaaaaaaaaaab on Thursday September 23, 2021 @07:21AM (#28627691)
How do you use a phone while charging it wirelessly?
Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by Scoundreller on Thursday September 23, 2021 @10:20AM (#28629533)
I think some automotive holsters do this so you’re not plugging/unplugging it, but still using it for nav/music/handsfree calls.

Which is even more of a waste given the inefficiency of wireless charging and the kWh cost of electricity in an ICE.

Re:EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all ph... by rblatz on Thursday September 23, 2021 @11:52AM (#28630938)
Magnets