I liked the article. It was an authentic (I assume) personal story. It wasn't a "strawman," or a "this is the way things should be" thing. It was a fairly plain-spoken personal chronicle.
I enjoyed it, and wish the author well.
For myself, I worked at a company that had a mission I was passionate about. I'm also a xenophile, and it was a Japanese company. I was fascinated by the Japanese commitment to Quality (at that company). I like working in teams; the more varied and exotic, the better.
I joined, planning on an 18-month stay (like my previous two gigs), but left, 27 years later.
I made some effort to find new work, after leaving that company, but became quite disillusioned with the process. I had acquired a "nest egg" that would allow me to retire, early. After a few insulting and rather demoralizing interactions with a few corporations, I decided that it was time to hang up my chinos, and write the code I always wanted to write, the way I wanted to write it; with no one taking a dump on it.
I have never been happier. I am probably working harder than I ever have, in my life, and having a blast.
My one Japanese company experience was in my early career, and it was discouraging. It has been so long, I can name NEC.
The colleagues were great, but on the occasions that executives from Japan were visiting, we were specifically told to look busy. And looking busy actually meant printing things out, walking around with papers, etc. Even in those dark, pre-eco times, I found it absurd. On the plus side, I got proper introduction to sushi and fell in love with that.
I can only imagine what a good situation one must have to spend 27 years there.
Cheers to your future endeavors.
The corporation (I don't name it in postings, but it's fairly easy to figure out, if you visit my SO Story) is one of the top-shelf corporations in Japan. Their brand is/was pretty much synonymous with "Quality."
I have been into writing Quality code, since my very first engineering project, and loved the passion.
The engineers and scientists in Tokyo were awesome. The company got "first draft pick." Every single one of them had at least a Master's degree. Many Ph.Ds. Having their business card opened a lot of doors for me.
I found their reliance on Process (note the capital "P") to be absolutely infuriating. It worked extremely well on hardware; not so well on software.
I did my best to coax them out of their mousehole, but, in the end, the conservatives won, and the company has basically retreated to its roots; which may not work out so well, in the long run.
It was pretty much impossible to get these (highly accomplished and talented) engineers to accept that their way (hardware and some firmware) would not work on software.
It usually ended up with them, labeling my efforts to introduce flexibility as some variant of “lazy, bad-quality engineering.” Hard sell.
Let's not feature creep work life balance ;)
> I made some effort to find new work, after leaving that company…
I'm curious why you left, if you want to share!
It was no surprise to me. I was saddened, but not surprised.
(I'm ready to "retire" whenever personally, and then work on the code I want with the people I want to without financial expectation!)
Good to see you here again, completely off topic follow up: did you or your siblings ever end up writing about work your father did with three letter agencies?
No, I suspect that we have all the information that we will get.
He earned a bronze star, silver star, and a couple of purple hearts, during WWII (I only found one, but he was wounded at least twice -maybe they just award one).
It earned my parents a place in Arlington, with the whole caisson/21-gun salute thing, but we have no idea why he got them.
There was a big fire, in St. Louis, in the 1950s (I think), that destroyed a lot of records.
Forget hearing anything he did with The Company. He was one of the first field agents. I think he may have been recruited in the first year or so of the agency. We think at least one of his brothers may also have been a "company man," but we'll never know. He took that secret to the grave.
Good idea!
Is it for profit or just for fun. I love to read stories like your's.
It’s coming along nicely.
If you’re working more than 8 you’re only robbing yourself of your life and your time, unless you’re a founder.
> If I could give my younger self advice, it would be to NEVER go work for a company unless you were absolutely passionate about their mission.
This constant theme of being “passionate” about the mission of a company that doesn’t care at all about you is so dystopian. What’s wrong with a job just being a job?
What's wrong with a job just being a job, for most jobs, is that it's 1/3 of your life being spent there. What excuse is there to do stupid, monotonous, or worse - counterproductive stuff for 1/3 of your life? I suppose if you're Hodor that's just fine. It's not fine for people who see potential and opportunities in every scenario.
Ok, if you're a checkout clerk at a grocery store, there's not a lot of room for improvement unless you start to focus on having some good human interactions with your customers. But on HN, I figure that's not most of us.
If you put the HN crowd on a road work crew, you know there would be a lot of workers who would identify significant opportunities for improving the process. Unless you're a monk, why would you do the slow and inefficient thing, excusing it as "it's just a job"? If you see a way to make your 8 hours of labor be worth twice as much to the company profit, or to the customers, or even to your joy and satisfaction, then why wouldn't you try?
If I were the boss, I would probably direct my staff toward a lot of dead ends as well. It's just the nature of not being omniscient. But I would hope that I would be open to the pushback from a worker who says, "Hey, I think we really should be doing Y, and here's why."
The excuse is the alternative is not that common. Amazing jobs are a luxury. We can tune our perspective to one of a job being "just a job", while both capitalizing on the work and leisure time as best we can, or we can think ourselves failures for having them. Seeing potential doesn't easily translate to job security. I think privileged positions render technocrats out-of-touch with the majority.
Absolutely agree, but there's middle ground. You can work at a job that you find fulfilling, and believe to be something positive for the world, without it being a passion. My belief is that people who are passionate about their jobs are driven to do foolish things, like stretching that 9 hour day to 10, 12, 14 hours far too often, because "X needs to get done by the weekend". Passion can also cause people to wrap way too much of their identity up in something, and if they aren't calling the shots at the job (that is, if they aren't the CEO or at least a C-level), it can really hurt their sense of self if (more like when) that job changes in ways that make them unhappy.
Certainly, do something worthwhile, something that you can feel good about. But leave passion for family, friends, and hobbies. Or, if you can swing it, a company you start yourself.
(It's funny, though, because I think the workforce does need passionate employees. Consider that many non-profits are staffed by people who are passionate about the non-profit's mission, yet the majority of those people won't have a say in the direction of their organization. If no one followed their passion when it came to employment, a lot of those jobs just wouldn't get done, since they often don't pay all that well. So I guess in a way I'm grateful to the people who work their passion projects, since they help the world go 'round.)
My advice to my younger self would be to chase the money. Make as much as you can, as quickly as you can, so you don't have to work for someone else ever again. I've been passionate about my work before, and, with the exception of one employer, it led me to burnout and under-compensation for my hard work (with the executives of course still taking their fat paychecks). I think there's also a middle ground where you can get compensated fantastically for what you do, and also work on things that you agree with and think are ethically sound, but don't drive you to work past midnight regularly because you love it so much.
Unless you are running the show, your passion is irrelevant. The people who run the show will do whatever they need to do to line their own pockets, and if that means exploiting your labor, or changing the mission to something you're not so passionate about anymore (or, worse, something you're actively against), they'll do it, and they won't be apologetic about it in the least.
Ironically, I think a good way to be compensated while doing something you're passionate about is as a consultant/contractor, where you get to set your rates and schedule. If you're getting paid hourly, all the better, because you know that every hour you put into it is going to earn you more money. As a salaried employee, working harder just dilutes your effective per-hour rate. And as a contractor, it's a lot easier to quit and move on to something else when the company inevitably changes direction in ways you aren't happy with.
Get the money!
Though contracting rates are stuck low unfortunately, I never found anything better than 125/hr.
It's entirely possible to live authentically without being particularly passionate about the field you earn your living in - I don't have a passion or "dream job" in the software field because I don't dream about labor. I'd much rather be skiing, building stuff in my shop or fishing. This doesn't mean I don't like my job or that I don't find it interesting or that I'm not a good/productive engineer - it simply means I derive meaning in life elsewhere.
[edit, added: why do anything without making effort to do it well? not that this is your attitude, but this sort of attitude is why a lot of software really sucks]
I consider advising and guiding the engineering organization as a whole part of my job description but there's a point at which just doing the damn thing wins out over protracted debate and sitting in endless meetings. At that point my focus typically shifts to mitigating toil/drudgery/future maintenance for myself and my teammates - I've cursed the names of people I've never met because I've spent months undoing work with their name all over it and my driving motivation in situations like that is to not have my name be the one being cursed by whoever takes my place. I take pride in my work but I don't really tie my sense of self-worth to it at all, which I've seen end poorly for engineers who become emotionally invested in their pet solution or project. When you realize anything you come up with, even if it's the greatest, most beautiful, most elegant solution will likely be replaced/rewritten/become full of hacky bullshit within the span of a few years it makes it easier to accept that.
You may enjoy digging the ditch, but ultimately I would enjoy spending the same time on something more useful a lot better.
I will happily dig beach ditches for employers, no doubt, but only with adequate shade and breaks (don't work 80 hour weeks), drinks provided etc.
I think the problem some have with your sentiments is that this scenario is as likely when you have a passion for something, and the control you have is the same as in the jobs you don't have a passion for. So the scenario is more one of:
If the company is giving you pointless tasks, and has erected walls, is it worth the pain in trying to bang your head against those walls - knowing that the majority of the times you will not make a dent to those walls? Being passionate can lead to a lot more pain with virtually nothing to show for that pain.
About half the jobs I had were for things I have some passion for. My experiences:
1. Jobs I had a passion for are all on the bottom half when it comes to my job satisfaction (without exception - no exaggeration).
2. Management in boring jobs are more likely to listen to me. If you're doing something that society puts a lot of value in (e.g. reducing world hunger), it will attract people who want glory, and they are harder to work with.
3. All the boring jobs have left me happier.
4. If I'm passionate about something, I will have my own definitions of success and metrics, and they never seem to align with the company's. What's the point of toiling away on something I'm passionate about if our goals differ? And then in the off chance I convince management to change, I'm as likely to get laid off as in the past. I know from experience how crappy it feels to accomplish something great, then be given the boot while they reap the rewards.
And finally, I'm one of those odd people who doesn't separate job work from personal work. And with the passions that I have, there is no job/company out there that aligns with it. So the logical step is to find a way to minimize time at work and use the spare time to do something more meaningful to me.
> why do anything without making effort to do it well?
Invert it back to you: Why do something well if it has no benefit to you? Especially when you could use that time/energy doing things that are meaningful.
People have different motives for doing things well, and they will do it if there is some payoff (and it need not be financial).
> not that this is your attitude, but this sort of attitude is why a lot of software really sucks
It definitely is, and that's unfortunately the point of stability when you look at the system as a whole. If you want better SW, work on the incentives. Don't expect people to go the extra mile that they will not be rewarded for. Time is finite. I used to work hard to make great SW, until I realized that I could use that time for more meaningful things. If my company rewarded me more than they do those who make crappy SW, I'd be more incentivized.
Because of this I am less attached to the work, there is more wiggle room, and I am less stressed about meeting deadlines.
Expectations from management will also be lower because you are a new-hire without any context. I'm not even going to get into the huge salary bumps you'll receive by hopping instead of waiting and fighting through performance reviews for a raise...
Most good raises come from quitting and changing jobs. The first few months, once you've passed the interview and been accepted, you have ridiculous room to be a loser (not suggesting you are) before the company will begin to recognize that.
Consequently, you may look around and see a lot of actual losers who are underperforming because they're lazy or inadequate.
Freelance, learning to play the consulting game, charging a lot, and negotiating unreasonable things (like pay me in advance for a year of income and you have my attention for a year for any project) is the way to go for people who feel this way. Or you build a SaaS or other business and make it work. Or marry rich.
There's something more here I think. It's perfectly fine to just have a job that pays the bills. But it's not fine if you take that job home with you. It's not fine if the job takes a mental or physical toll on your mind or body. It's not fine to be married to a job. Any job IMHO, even one that you're absolutely passionate about or whatever. Even if you're saving babies and solving world hunger or whatever it's not worth sacrificing your family/friend time.
Personally I make about half as much money at my current job as my last job, but I work half as many hours, and there's no expectation of being a "team player" or "work hard play hard" nonsense, no phone calls at night or on the weekends, I don't have email or teams/slack installed on my phone, I have an office with a door that I can close. (well, I used to, in The Before Times) I make decent money (it's hard to get paid poorly as a software developer) but it's not early retirement money or fancy sports car money the way my last job was. I show up, I do my job, I go home. It's a nice company that does nice things in the world, but I don't really care.
And I know all about the feeling of relief the author mentions.
The idea of searching for the "perfect" job where you're passionate about working for such a wonderful company-- to me that sounds unrealistic. Like watching too many Disney princess movies as a kid and growing up expecting that you'll marry Prince Charming, or being pretty good at football in high school and expecting to play in the NFL, or the musician who keeps trying to get their lucky break. The world... well it's just not like that.
12-18 mo after joining most companies in my career, this was my feeling. It's awful. You literally fight to make things better in a company, to help the company earn a bit more profit.
There are the enviable? people who can just work the 9 hours, do the job, not get committed or emotionally invested, and then leave the job when they walk out the door. But for some of us, there's the vision of what could be, and the absurd obstacles preventing us from reaching the what could be. Even so, the what could be often just means a percent or two more profit for the company. If you're saving babies and solving world hunger, it matters. If you're helping telecom companies recover from problems related to the 1980s billing systems which they never bit the bulled and replaced, it ultimately means nothing.
> A weight was lifted off my shoulders.
Until you feel this weight, and you walk away, you cannot know what this feels like. For the author, in such a short sentence, it sounds immediate. For me, 6 weeks after quitting a permanent contract (which is the kind of guaranteed security we're not used to in the US unless you're exective with a golden parachute), I'm finally coming to grips with my freedom. It's like a sponge that has been squeezed into a 1cm cube.
If I could give my younger self advice, it would be to NEVER go work for a company unless you were absolutely passionate about their mission. Never work for the money. You could work for the money and die rich, never having lived authentically. Or you could live authentically, rich or poor, and die satisfied.