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Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by romwell on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @05:56PM (#28610512)
>and we end up with Homer-cars with a thousand ports.

And what exactly is wrong with that?

Ever seen musician's gear?

Even the cheapest, smallest mixer boards support XLR, RCA, 1/4", and often USB for audio I/O -- and have many of them.

Because yes, everyone has something essential to their flow, and number of configurations grows exponentially.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by TeMPOraL on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @06:24PM (#28610778)
> And what exactly is wrong with that?

Honestly? Presentation. That's why I consider it a dumb argument in general. People mention "Homer's car" or equivalent memes from works of fiction as some kind of ridiculous contraptions, but don't bat an eye when a show like Star Trek does the same. The big difference, IMO, is that Homer's car is delivered to you up front, a solution looking for problem(s). Star Trek's tricorder or roundabout or a starship only happen to show a different one-off feature every episode - so the realization that the equipment is deeply multipurpose, and has all those features already present, kind of flies past people who're not into this sort of thing.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by chrisseaton on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @06:34PM (#28610868)
The issue for me is how silly it is to hard-code these arbitrary and often single-purpose connectors in the laptop.

A laptop should be a general computing device. So why hard-code something as weirdly specific as an SD card reader into it? Give it the functionality to have any IO device attached (USB-C) instead.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by romwell on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @06:48PM (#28610991)
> Give it the functionality to have any IO device attached (USB-C) instead.

Because a laptop is a portable device, and carrying something with dongles dangling from it is something that nobody wants to do.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by int_19h on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @08:36PM (#28611814)
Hence the solution that the Framework offers: a device body that allocates space for USB-C dongles such that they fit flush when installed.

Now all we need is an industry standard for those.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by ninkendo on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @09:00PM (#28611984)
How many additional watt-hours of battery would they have been able to fit in the laptop if they didn’t have the carve-outs for such dongles?

Say what you want about the MacBook’s lack of user-replacability, but it’s basically a tiny chip board about the same size as the iPhone’s, with a big box of batteries holding it.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by Dylan16807 on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @05:46AM (#28614575)
> How many additional watt-hours of battery would they have been able to fit in the laptop if they didn’t have the carve-outs for such dongles?

Looking at the insides, I'm going to guess about 2 watt hours. Or they could have made it unmeasurably thinner.

> Say what you want about the MacBook’s lack of user-replacability, but it’s basically a tiny chip board about the same size as the iPhone’s, with a big box of batteries holding it.

Framework has 55 watt hours. The obsolete macbooks have 41. Both intel and M1 macbook pros have 58. Both intel and M1 macbook airs have 50.

Sounds like that lack of user-replacability isn't necessary.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by NikolaNovak on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @09:37PM (#28612220)
Yeah I'm still waiting on the improved battery life that losing 3.5mm was supposed to give me.

Not buying it. I'll take extra 2mm for 3.5mm and usb a.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by ddoeth on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @07:35AM (#28615211)
Going to get into the 1.5mm jack life
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by romwell on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:59PM (#28612987)
Not enough to justify cutting them out.

(The answer is of the same level as question. If you want to imply that there's a significant gain, go prove it.)

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by romwell on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @08:48PM (#28611901)
Yup, I'm singing praise to Framework here.

The sanest system I've seen in a decade at least.

I don't even need a new laptop, and I still want this one.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by heisenzombie on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @09:13PM (#28612061)
I guess PCMCIA was kind of like this. Of course dongles were bigger back then.
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by girvo on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @11:29PM (#28612831)
Man I loved the idea of PCMCIA back in the day. Mobile network access (EDGE, if I remember correctly) via one of them on my chunky Toshiba was awesome.
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by toyg on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @04:03AM (#28614062)
I was fascinated by PCMCIA, because I had a laptop I was trying to put OpenBSD on it in 2001 and its ethernet port was not working, so the card was a workaround. I always wondered why it didn't really take off in Europe, it was a simple and pretty compact way (for the time) to get very advanced stuff in a laptop - I guess it was expensive to produce and the name was atrocious. I believe it got more popular in Japan.
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by FpUser on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @07:55PM (#28611522)
I very much enjoy multiple USB 3 ports, ethernet, card reader on my laptop and do not have to carry any dongles. And I can easily hook 2 x 4K 60P screens using built in HDMI and mini-DP ports. It also has thunderbolt 3 so I can still hook anything extra should I ever wish.
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by Nullabillity on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @07:47PM (#28623511)
That argument would make far more sense if these anorexia laptops at least compensated for the removed ports with more USB ports. But no, you get the same pathetic 4 (at most) as always.

Even worse when they're the pathetic failure (host-side) that is USB-C, so nothing fits without a dongle anyway. Bonus points if you have to waste one of them for charging the laptop, yay!

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by smoe on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @10:26PM (#28612511)
From what I have seen, it is more the hobby/semi professional range that has all the possible connectors built in whereas in the high end it is more modular and you buy different modules dependent on the connectivity you need. Especially if you need to fit it into a rack. E.g. you might only have some DSUB 25 pin connectors, but they cover dozens of analog I/O channels on minimal amount of space.
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by ioseph on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @06:25PM (#28610787)
I'm not sure a mixer is the best comparison here since its sole purpose is to combine inputs.
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by romwell on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @06:56PM (#28611059)
Yeah, and what's the point of having I/O ports on a computer?
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by chrisseaton on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @06:00PM (#28610556)
> Ever seen musician's gear?

I guess some of those are analogue? I guess you can't squeeze those all through the same physical form factor connector. You can with digital, so let's reduce the clutter and do it!

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by II2II on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @08:07PM (#28611625)
I'm not a musician, but I've seen plenty of DJs setup their gear. It is clear that the connectors and cables are designed to be physically durable. They work in environments where even a beefed up USB cable would only last a few gigs, since building compact connectors for consumer grade electronics is at odds with the day to day reality of commercial applications.

I'm sure that other factors play a role. The economics of going digital would be terrible if it meant replacing a significant amount of equipment every time a new standard took over the market. Again, pointing to USB (since that it what everyone seems to associate with universal digital connections), we have seen three major iterations and a number of minor ones over the past 30 years. That's hardly the type of cycle that businesses want to hop onto given that a tiny operation requires thousands of dollars of equipment, where any given component may be anywhere from a couple of years old to over a decade old.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by InitialLastName on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @01:27PM (#28619154)
> we have seen three major iterations and a number of minor ones over the past 30 years.

... None of which broke existing functionality. I can plug a full-speed device from 2000 into a USB-3 A port and it will work perfectly (as long as there is still software support for the vendor-specific drivers that might have been necessary for non-class-compliant devices).

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by romwell on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @06:54PM (#28611045)
Except for USB, they are all analogue, and some are mutually interchangeable.

3.5mm TRS, dual 3.5mm TS, dual RCA, 1/4" TRS, dual 1/4" TS, XLR cables transfer the same kind of signal, and you can easily convert between the connector with dongles.

Mixers have all of these so that you wouldn't have to.

The utility is not thinking about where the f***ing dongle is when you just want to plug something in.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by vict00ms on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @10:08AM (#28616469)
Most modern mixers support toslink (and even coaxial sometimes), especially ones that are specifically oriented towards timecode control.
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @03:34AM (#28613911)
my gear has toslink as well
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by tomc1985 on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @10:06PM (#28612395)
One man's clutter is another man's treasure. I hate dongles and extra parts, give me a fuckton of different ports!
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by laurent92 on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @06:37PM (#28610890)
Yes, exactly, let’s suggest musicians to use USB-C, and every third cable won’t work, and they will be able to make a concert but with no guitar, exactly like the devices in front of us when we try to work.

The only insurance against “the USB-C downtime” is a subscription to Amazon Prime 24hrs delivery and another $68 (no kidding) Apple cable.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by chrisseaton on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @06:38PM (#28610904)
> Yes, exactly, let’s suggest musicians to use USB-C

Not sure what you mean - I said didn't really apply to analogue.