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Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by elmerfud on Friday September 03, 2021 @03:58PM (#28408676)
Without knowing exactly what's going on it's difficult to say. My better nature thinks that hopefully this is not a case of moral arbitration on the part of GoDaddy. It's quite likely if the site has generated huge amounts of traffic it could be counted as impacting services and this is why they need to move or perhaps get DDOS protection to prevent that. Giving godaddy's history I have my doubts that's the reason.

Since this is not the first time GoDaddy has done similar things I do not know why anyone would continue to use GoDaddy for anything. I want the employees of GoDaddy to be politically active and participate in the democratic process but I do not GoDaddy as a company to be the moral arbiter of things.

The CEO of GoDaddy, maybe not the current one I haven't kept up on things, has had his own troubles yet I don't recall him getting completely canceled by the company. This kind of Jim Crowesque behavior from companies always ends badly. This is literally what happens when people are single issue zealots. They seem completely incapable of understanding that the reasoning that they apply against their single issue will eventually turn around and be used against them.

What we need is laws that companies cannot be moral arbiters. If companies do choose to become moral arbiters then all protections against them are removed. You cannot cancel someone because you do not like what they say and then turn it right around and claim common carrier status therefore you are not responsible for something else you're hosting. Yeah this is what we see repeatedly with a number of these companies they wish to feign ignorance and common carrier status but they also wish to selectively police things.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by sithadmin on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:20PM (#28408915)
This is really very cut and dry: GoDaddy's terms of service prohibit use of their services for harvesting PII without express consent from the person whose PII is being collected. The anti-abortion activists' site openly invites the public to doxx 3rd parties, and hence violates the policy. The anti-abortion site is not functionally that dissimilar from something like a site that allows doxxing ex-romatic partners or the like, and both represent low-value forms of distasteful speech that frankly, no private service provider ought to be obliged to faciliate.

While GoDaddy could be politically or morally motivated here, this just seems like a fair application of the policy.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by scarmig on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:59PM (#28409352)
dontdatehimgirl.com is a website that indeed lets women dox exes, and its DNS provider is... GoDaddy.

ETA: I agree that that TOS provision is good and should be enforced, but it's no coincidence who gets the hammer for violating it.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by sithadmin on Friday September 03, 2021 @05:21PM (#28409558)
The anti-abortion site is getting traffic, press coverage and activist attention in ways the site you mentioned (probably) doesn't. 'The nail that sticks out gets hammered down'.

Even if the fairness in terms of TOS accountability here is in practice unfair, I think leaving issues to bubble up organically rather than implementing some sort of heavy-handed machine moderation/content monitor system (looking at you, YouTube) is probably preferable.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by 93po on Friday September 03, 2021 @07:29PM (#28410582)
It looks like the site you linked doesn't do that anymore. It's just a marketing site for a book as far as I can tell
Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by TheParkShark on Friday September 03, 2021 @08:29PM (#28410990)
It says secret forum on the side. Did you make an account and go browse in there or did you just look at the front page for a few seconds?
Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by 93po on Saturday September 04, 2021 @01:34PM (#28417125)
clearly the latter, haha
Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by France_is_bacon on Friday September 03, 2021 @06:39PM (#28410231)
It is impossible to monitor millions of websites, so I'm sure GoDaddy relies on people reporting the situation to them. Report dontdatehimgirl.com and see what happens. Post your results on here.
Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by wombatmobile on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:32PM (#28409053)
> My better nature thinks that...

I'm not sure what you mean by "better" or "nature". It sounds like you may have some form of structure in your thinking that clearly delineates "politics" from "business" and "morality". Can we explore that a little?

Do you consider it is the role of SCOTUS to be the moral arbiter of women's bodies?

If not, and SCOTUS has overreached, whose role is it to push back against SCOTUS' activism?

Nobody?

Everybody?

Somebody?

The answers to these questions are not mathematical, scientific, or technical. They are political.

If your "better nature" excludes companies from participating in the political process, how does it feel about companies donating to political parties e.g. to facilitate the building of oil pipelines across exempt areas of land, or to rezone land for mega warehouses, or to bust unions, or to facilitate casinos?

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by SpicyLemonZest on Friday September 03, 2021 @05:06PM (#28409417)
A political war of all against all massively raises the costs of expressing a viewpoint which other people don't like. That makes it harder to participate in the political process, and easier for the powers that be to discourage any political participating which they find inconvenient.

(As a commenter says above though, I do think that in this particular case the takedown was probably not politically motivated.)

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by salawat on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:54PM (#28409307)
> Can we explore that a little?

Many people do structure their thinking that way for the simple reason that business molds itself to it's container; the shape of which was previously defined by a combo of politics and technological feasibility.

>Do you consider it is the role of SCOTUS to be the moral arbiter of women's bodies?

No, but they are the legal one. Two different things there.

>Who should push back?

Citizens have duly elected representatives and Senators to sort that out. The continued conscious decision not to sort it out, is alas, a Hallmark of the carefully laid checks and balances of our system to keep the frivolous or overly controversial from getting rolled into the law of the land... Nope, couldn't keep a straight face. Intent is there though.

>If your "better nature" excludes companies from participating in the political process, how does it feel about companies donating to political parties e.g. to facilitate the building of oil pipelines across exempt areas of land, or to rezone land for mega warehouses, or to bust unions, or to facilitate casinos?

The political landscape is arguably better off without business being able to directly effect it via campaign donations/lobbying/writing bills. Business should inform. Not drive, politics.

I also find companies making political donations at the behest of management to be suspect, especially since no one generally asks the laborer where the company should rout their political interest slush pile.

Not that I was asked. Just had an answer in mind and figured I'd share.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by dragonwriter on Friday September 03, 2021 @08:35PM (#28411032)
> If not, and SCOTUS has overreached

All SCOTUS has done is decline pre-enforcement review of the Texas Law on threshold grounds that won't apply once there is an actual enforcement action; while this is hugely significant in practical impact, it very much does not address the moral, or even legal, status of the law itself.

(Now, is the Texas Legislature overreaching and setting itself as the moral arbiter of women’s bodies? That's another question.)

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by wombatmobile on Friday September 03, 2021 @08:53PM (#28411118)
> (Now, is the Texas Legislature overreaching and setting itself as the moral arbiter of women’s bodies? That's another question.)

Right.

SCOTUS chose not to answer the question, even though it is the only institution that can speak to it authoritatively.

“Not to Speak Is to Speak. Not to Act Is to Act.”

-- Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by Ancapistani on Saturday September 04, 2021 @01:24AM (#28412295)
> SCOTUS chose not to answer the question

As far as I know, the question hasn’t even been asked of SCOTUS. All that was asked was for an injunction against the law while it goes through the lower courts.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by ddog78 on Saturday September 04, 2021 @02:22AM (#28412586)
Which they refused to do, ergo inaction.
Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by christophilus on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:51PM (#28409266)
Not then OP, but companies donating to political parties seems like a pretty obviously bad idea, and I wish we would ban it.
Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by threatofrain on Friday September 03, 2021 @05:27PM (#28409618)
At this point it's a US Constitutional matter. Nothing short of a Supreme Court shakeup or a Constitutional amendment would do anything.
Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by elmerfud on Friday September 03, 2021 @05:10PM (#28409458)
By better nature in this context is assuming this was done for content neutral reasons. I hope it is a non-politically motivated application of their terms of service. As in the site, due to its nature, is generating a traffic load that is beyond the capability that they wish to serve or as another poster had pointed out it could be they are collecting pii information in violation of terms of service. It is the idea that we should attempt to assume they are acting in a content neutral way rather than assuming they are attempting to police people's thoughts or speech. GoDaddy does have a suspect history of these things but at the end of the day I do not know because, rightly they would not comment on it except to their customer and I do not believe that the customer has released a press statement of what they were informed.

Your question about the supreme Court by its nature is invalid. Supreme Court interprets or applies the laws under the constitutional framework. It is the people or their elected representatives that establish the laws. The supreme Court does not become an arbiter of women's bodies ever. The people or by proxy the people's Representatives may do this by having passed laws and the supreme Court determines the constitutionality of those laws. Now if you were to say the Constitution could become the arbiter of women's bodies that is a possibility, as the amendment process would allow for this.

Supreme Court activism is another buzzword used by people of all kinds of political persuasions. It has become that anyone who disagrees with a supreme Court ruling simply calls them as Court activism. There are cases that I have disagreed with but I believe it is a lot of hyperbole to toss around a supreme court activism. If there is supreme Court activism the remedy is constitutional amendments.

I do not believe that companies as an entity should be politically active. This is one of those areas where the supreme Court disagrees and has granted companies as an entity to have the legal right of freedom of speech and participation in the political process effectively unrestricted. I do not know how they reached the conclusion that companies as an entity are granted personhood and therefore the enumerated rights granted to peoples but they did. It's quite evident when you follow the money in politics that laws that companies tend to support almost always pass regardless of the popular support of people. When there are laws that have massive popular support of the people but the companies do not support they rarely pass. This shows that there is not equal representation. A company does not have the representation power of an individual person it has the representation power of all of their employees and the monetary power that those employees generate but the company often does not follow the political ideals of their employees.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by wombatmobile on Friday September 03, 2021 @08:47PM (#28411098)
> Your question about the supreme Court by its nature is invalid.

That's an interesting comment - "invalid". I was asking for your opinion when I asked "Do you consider it is the role of SCOTUS to be the moral arbiter of women's bodies?"

How can it be invalid to ask for your opinion?

Perhaps you meant it would be irrelevant what anybody's opinion was of the role of SCOTUS because in your schema, the role of SCOTUS is prescribed as "Supreme Court interprets or applies the laws under the constitutional framework." For you, perhaps that is absolutely clear and precise, and not at all subjective or political.

But have you considered that SCOTUS has discretion about which cases it chooses to hear? In this case, the Texas legislature has passed a law that the applicant tried to challenge as unconstitutional.

Is the legislation unconstitutional, and if so, how?

We don't know, and we haven't been informed at all by SCOTUS because it decided 5-4 not to hear this case.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by dragonwriter on Friday September 03, 2021 @06:48PM (#28410310)
> What we need is laws that companies cannot be moral arbiters.

The thing is we have a law that sharply limits the possibilities of the kind of law you want; that law is the First Amendment.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by toomuchtodo on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:11PM (#28408807)
(Reference to Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission removed here) Businesses have the right to do business with whom they choose, and if you choose to not host a site that was built to violate someone's rights, that is your choice.

No one is entitled to a platform. Let the Texans receive snail mail reporting folks for attempting to exercise their rights, or others attempting to help them exercise their rights.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by elmerfud on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:16PM (#28408863)
Actually the LGBT cake you have a very big misunderstanding of what that was. The person was more than willing to sell them a cake because he did not discriminate in his business on who he sold his items. What the disagreement was on is he did not want to perform the artwork on the cake. What was upheld is you cannot enforce an artist to do work for you against their own opinions.

This is a completely different thing. They were not asking GoDaddy to create their website or perform any task other than the hosting of it which is the selling of the cake. If GoDaddy chose not to create the website and instead referred them to other places for their creative work that would be the correct comparison. This is the lack of History that we seem to have in this country currently.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by dragonwriter on Friday September 03, 2021 @07:00PM (#28410395)
> The person was more than willing to sell them a cake because he did not discriminate in his business on who he sold his items. What the disagreement was on is he did not want to perform the artwork on the cake.

No, he refused to make any cake at all for the event for which one waa sought, explicitly because it was a same sex wedding. Artwork was not the issue:

---quote---

Phillips informed the couple that he does not “create” wedding cakes for same-sex weddings. Ibid. He explained, “I’ll make your birthday cakes, shower cakes, sell you cookies and brownies, I just don’t make cakes for same sex weddings.”

---end quote---

MASTERPIECE CAKESHOP, LTD., ET AL. v. COLORADO CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION ET AL. 584 US ____ (2018), No. 16-111, slip op. @ 4 (Sup.Ct., June 4, 2018) https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-111_j4el.pdf

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by toomuchtodo on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:17PM (#28408881)
I removed the example because it was a poor analogy. Regardless, a webhost or cloud provider is within their right to turn away anyone's business, including if it violates their Terms of Service (which is open to broad interpretation by the business). Can't discriminate against a protected class of course, but that's not the case here.

The law, as it currently stands, cannot force a technology provider to provide a platform for content if they prefer not to host it.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by elmerfud on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:24PM (#28408948)
The point is not about what the company is able to do legally. Because the legality of things is the lowest possible bar that we could set in our society. It's a really poor excuse to do something and say well it's not illegal.

My point is this excessive moral arbitration that causes the exclusion of people and entities from society is a very dangerous path to head down. We should want individuals to make moral and political decisions and participate in the processes that allow for change and remediation. By having companies both large and small become the moral arbiters and forcibly excluding people from the participation in society will only ever end badly.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by toomuchtodo on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:26PM (#28408974)
Who is this path dangerous for? Society as a whole? Or the malicious who are attempting to take advantage of weaknesses in societal fabric or democracy? When certain systems fail, we require other systems to take up the slack. In this case, private industry is stepping in where government (in this case, the State of Texas) as horrifically failed. The legislation in question was specifically crafted to subvert US Supreme Court (Roe vs Wade) precedence.

> My point is this excessive moral arbitration that causes the exclusion of people and entities from society is a very dangerous path to head down. We should want individuals to make moral and political decisions and participate in the processes that allow for change and remediation. By having companies both large and small become the moral arbiters and forcibly excluding people from the participation in society will only ever end badly.

Some people and entities should be excluded due to incompatibility (broadly speaking, but would include human rights beliefs, harming others, etc). Their participation is not in good faith. They are not attempting to have a debate or a discussion, but are attempting to rule through tyranny. In this example, Texan conservatives are ramming through legislation to enforce their belief system on the women of Texas. They are simply running up against the consequences of such (distasteful, unethical) behavior, and as conservatives, you would think they're comfortable with the idea of personal responsibility and business freedom, and consequently are prepared to face the repercussions of their decisions.

You can have a conversation, a discussion, or a debate of ideas with a rational actor operating in good faith; you punch a bully in the face.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by powerslacker on Friday September 03, 2021 @05:22PM (#28409566)
Regardless of your or anyone's personal preference for the law, it ought to be respected on the ground that the men and women who passed it are at least to some degree elected by the people. We're not talking about King Henry VIII here — this is a democratically elected republic trying to build laws that meet the needs and wants of their supporters. If GoDaddy is selectively enforcing its ToS to disable potentially legitimate government action then there is an argument to be made that they are unjustly wielding their oligopolistic power. Either GoDaddy should be required to enforce its ToS across the board or it should be required to do business with the Texas government. GoDaddy cannot be considered a content neutral provider under Section 230 if it is selectively enforcing. When this kind of thing has happened in the past, the government has enacted and enforced antitrust laws — e.g. Cornelius Vanderbilt.
Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by toomuchtodo on Friday September 03, 2021 @05:26PM (#28409609)
Unjust laws are not to be respected, and should be challenged through every avenue available. The Will of the People and their elected representatives brought us slavery, the internment of the Japanese, and horrific medical testing without consent on minorities (to name a few democratically supported gross human rights violations) after all.

The executive branch isn’t going to take any actions that support Texas in this matter from an antitrust perspective (Biden’s comments have made it exceptionally clear where they stand on Texas’ legislation as an assault on the rights of women).

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by ddog78 on Saturday September 04, 2021 @02:26AM (#28412603)
Slavery was upheld by democratically elected governments too, wasn't it? People have a duty to not respect unjust laws - that has been the major factor of change in society.

Otherwise women wouldn't be voting in the US still.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by Banana699 on Saturday September 04, 2021 @08:16AM (#28414399)
>Or the malicious who are attempting to take advantage of weaknesses in societal fabric or democracy

Classic. "They" want to take away your rights, off course. The shadowy malicious, always scheming in secrecy, always forcing companies' hands to crack down and decide things that have nothing to do with them.

This is not flirting with fascism at all. (Not until it's used against you, at any rate.)

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by sithadmin on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:40PM (#28409146)
>We should want individuals to make moral and political decisions and participate in the processes that allow for change and remediation. By having companies both large and small become the moral arbiters and forcibly excluding people from the participation in society will only ever end badly.

Allowing corporations to make decisions on moral, ethical or political grounds isn't at odds with your framing of individual agency. If corporations (or other organized entities) do something that most associated individuals find to be truly against their moral and political sensibilities, then in a world where individual agency matters the way you imply it does, people would simply dissociate from the company/organization at some point.

I doubt that will happen with any kind of scale in this case, as there are some behaviors and beliefs that - while legal - are generally viewed as undesirable, and aren't going to garner any support from your average employee. Doxxing and harassing women seeking abortions is just one of many such cases.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by threatofrain on Friday September 03, 2021 @04:35PM (#28409083)
The more critical answer is that religion has a special place in the US, and is among the foremost of rights. A business which develops religious art for any of their customers except with regards to Christian art would also be violating constitutional rights, despite the fact that their non-Christian offerings are available to all.

Also, we could pick easier discussions like how religious organizations have broad freedoms to discriminate against gay individuals, such as by firing gay employees or evicting gay students. There it becomes clear that religious rights have a very special place in law, and that gay marital benefits by the likes of Microsoft or Google is simply an expression of soft company power.

Furthermore, gay protections exist at the federal level largely due to a previous Supreme Court with a Sandra Day O'Connor acting as a pivotal vote. It is not obvious how Lawrence v Texas, which legalized gay sex, would've turned out in today's court.

Re:GoDaddy is cutting off Texas Right to Life’s abortion ‘wh... by amanaplanacanal on Friday September 03, 2021 @05:07PM (#28409427)
> What was upheld is you cannot enforce an artist to do work for you against their own opinions.

That was not the decision, though it appears to be a common misconception. The decision was that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission had exhibited hostility towards religion and that wasn't allowed. They didn't rule on free speech grounds.