Maybe I'm missing something, but is this actually a thing? Who in the mainstream proposing police violence, bodily or financial harm? The worst I've heard (in the U.S.) is that a business may not allow you to enter if you're not wearing a mask, which is well within their right and reasonable.

In Spain we were forced inside for 2 months, and then forced to wear masks at all times in public - indoors and outdoors.

The police got a free pass to beat and arrest people with the excuse of masks or curfew: https://elpais.com/espana/2021-03-28/la-policia-investiga-a-...

I got banned from some subreddits just for posting that, because it's become such a political issue in the US.

If the government tells you that you can't play loud music after 10pm and you do it anyway, eventually someone will issue you a citation. If you refuse to pay that, eventually you'll get a court summons. If you fail to appear, eventually a police officer may arrest you. If you resist, they will use force to make you comply.

It's a bit hyperbolic, but it is a standard libertarian/objectivist "gotcha".

Imagine a town council meeting where someone is proposing a $25 fine for crapping on the sidewalk. And a libertarian pops and screaming "You're saying you want to use violence up to and including murder to keep our sidewalks clean!"

Again technically there is a hypothetical chain of causality from sidewalk crapping fine to bodily harm/murder, but no one other than another hardcore libertarian is going to be convinced by that argument.

Generally libertarians only allow for rules against behaviors that violate the rights of others because of this, and I think that's about right.

Because that's what you _are_ saying. Laws are enforced by the police, and they are able to be enforced by the police because the police are legally able to use force. I do not understand what other view there is to take on the issue. In my mind, it's not an opinion, it's a fact.

The fact that people “don’t agree” means they’re morons. It is fact.

It's when I read comments like yours that I feel so jealous of the US. You don't even know what living where I am is like. For you it's like a place that couldn't possibly exist. :P

And then the same Americans ban you from Reddit if you complain about the lockdowns or forced mask mandates.

2. The impact of wearing a mask, with the exception of a small subset of people, is negligible. At most, it's very slightly uncomfortable.

Given those two things, choosing _not_ to wear a mask makes you a bad person in the eyes of most people; and rightfully so. You are unwilling to put forth a minimal effort to help protect those around you.

And yes, if everyone sees you as a bad person because of your chosen actions, then you can expect to shun/comdemn/avoid you. That's how society works across the world.

Now that this study has come out, with actual numbers, hopefully the recommendations will change; or at least it will spur some research to try to confirm the lack of protection provided by cloth masks. Recommendations were made based on existing information. New information is added and recommendations/actions are taken based on that. That's how science is _supposed_ to work.

People with some flavor of libertarian viewpoint have often explained how every piece of legislation is ultimately backed up by physical force from police officers. Ultimately, if you violate any government policy: whether it is taxation, opening up an illegal lemonade stand, or trying to attend a restaurant that has a vaccine mandate imposed on it, it is ultimately physical force that backs this up if compliance is refused.

As far as financial harm: see the government strongly encouraging corporations to mandate vaccines or other similar policies.

https://youtu.be/XOKPtYdDh20?t=232

https://twitter.com/Lukewearechange/status/14330657788032655...

Enjoy. https://youtu.be/5ByEppIvsDc

> A minimum €50 (£45) fine will be slapped on anyone breaking rules on face coverings - in shops, public transport or elsewhere

This is what you do whenever you propose a fine. Ultimately fines are paid because otherwise men with guns will threaten you if you don't hand over the money.

We spruce it up with layers and layers, but at the end of it if it comes down to it, it is enforced by men with guns.

https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/pgr2sl/it_is_pas...

Anecdotally, I was personally assaulted for not wearing a mask because I took it off after needing to use my ventolin to prevent an asthma attack in a mall. I only need to remove it for about 2-3 minutes at a time the odd time I feel an attack coming on, which only really happens when the weather is really aggrivating me during the hottest summer months where I am. That was enough time for some lunatic to come suckerpunch me in the back of the head and run away.

I've seen people yelling and screaming at others, store employees putting their hands on elderly people not wearing masks and pushing them around. Mobs of masked people surrounding and intimidating individuals who were not masked in places they were not required to be.

There were reports of police breaking into homes and physically removing people that were visiting over Christmas.

I could go on and on...

We're talking wearing a mask and saving lives.

This study doesn’t show that - it shows a slower rate of transmission, but without vaccination, the long term infection rate will ultimately be the same.

What if they don't want your input in their lives?

Would most people be cooperating with the health and safety protocols if there was an outbreak of Ebola?

At some point we need a way forward, and that really shouldn’t require masks in all public settings.

BTW - masks completely destroy my beard, so they’re not ‘zero impact’ by any means. ;-)

You're right, long term, improving ventilation is how to reduce exposure, in the meantime though, I don't think it's too much to ask to mask up.