Breaking the HN guidelines will get you banned here, regardless of how right you are, or feel you are, about obesity and other topics. No more of this, please.
You might object to my lashing out. Well, sometimes it is important to take a strong stance. And, yes, sometimes those promoting magical solutions are culpable and should be scolded.
Am I wrong? I do not think so. Nobody needs pills to lose weight. Nobody. That is a matter of both biology and physics. I'll defy anyone to prove otherwise. Have we become insane?
The problem is that we have industrialized bad food choices and have created a marketplace where it is actually difficult to escape stuff that is bad for you.
Just last night we were at a restaurant. A few tables over was a family where every single member, kids included, were twice the size of a normal and healthy person. Their table was full of all of the wrong choices. And, on top of that, large free-refill glasses of soft drinks. At the end of their meal they all had cake and ice cream. Wow.
My youngest kids just started in-person high school again. The school has free food for every student. Its absolute garbage. The word "junk" doesn't even begin to cover it. The healthiest thing they have is apple juice, with nearly 40 grams of sugar per serving. My kids pack a lunch, just a simple sandwich them make themselves every morning. Not very expensive at all. Not hard to make. We don't make them, the kids do and have been doing so for years. They also drink water. We have no soft drinks at home. The kids grew up drinking water and have no cravings whatsoever for soft drinks, candy, ice cream, etc. Sure, we occasionally have the stuff at parties, but that's the exception rather than the rule. And, no, they are not deprived. They simply do not care for the stuff because they did not become addicted to any of it as they grew up.
Every family relying on the State/City/County/School district to feed their kids is, in return, having their kids poisoned. Worse yet, their kids are being programmed to become addicted to food that is absolutely horrible for them. When they come out of school they are well on their way to diabetes and other problems.
Pills?
Please.
Our kids are coming into adulthood biologically programmed for high levels of sugar and carbohydrate consumption. It's all they eat since they are done with breast feeding. No pill is going to fix that level of programming.
People who reach high levels of obesity are susceptible to the kinds of things that are going to cause them to spend money popping all kinds of pills every day. They are suffering, lots of them are depressed and our government and regulatory agencies have failed them --which is part of the reason they got there.
We don't need pills. The problem is systemic. Fund startups who will deal with this and not ones that are no different from any other yo-yo diet program by any other name.
Does anyone really think someone is going to change life-long habits after popping pills for a year? What is far more likely to happen is that they will become dependent on said pills, which is great for a revenue stream and a billion dollar exit to a pharmaceutical giant, not so great for the individual.
What is beyond the pale here isn't my choice of language or intensity, it's the ultimate significance of what this startup represents. No different from the abomination that bariatric surgery is. Great business. Horrible for the individual. I know two people who nearly died after having it.
Who am I kidding. There's money in suffering. I'll bet it will be a fantastic IPO one day. Maybe you should start marketing outside schools. Just like smoking, that's your future user base. Congratulations.
I'll focus on one area of your post: "They will have developed no good habits at all. They will not have a clue as to how to manage stress. They sure as fuck are not going to understand that exercise is important and necessary. They are not going to become discerning about what they eat...They will pop your pills as they suck-in a two liter drink with insane amounts of sugar and inhale cheap carbohydrates in their burritos, burgers, pizza, etc."
I want to emphasize how wrong you are here.
Fella is a 12-month program, with continued support for the rest of your life after that first year. The program is focused on:
- building resilience to stress & other testing emotions
- building a sustainable exercise habit which is enjoyable and sustainable
- building healthier eating habits which are realistic & sustainable
- building sleep habits which help improve metabolic health
In terms of the medication, it's really important to listen to obesity specialists here. They are trying to find practical solutions to help people. It's clear that moral indignation isn't working so far.
These are all legitimate concerns you raise. Know that I have researched this deeply, and genuinely believe this is the best practical solution to help the most amount of people.
Please let me know your thoughts.
This is my favorite HN line in ages, kudos!
PS - in California and signed up for the wait list.
Sure, there are medical conditions that sometimes play a role. But how often is that the case? I actually don't know. Maybe your company could help with that?
Good luck. There's obviously a market for your services.
Far from ignorant. It is an absolute fact --thermodynamics-- that no human being needs a pill to lose weight. So, stop with the holier-than-thou come-back and think.
This is no different from selling crap weight loss supplements to people. Why? Because they do not need that either. The fact that something is clinically proven means nothing. Why? Because people don't need it.
> Your approach is, like the others, one among many that will work for some people.
It isn't my approach. I only had to lose about 30 lbs. I could have done that going back to strength training, which was I was into before the pandemic hit. I decided to see if there was any merit to what my wife, the MD, was telling me.
Major "duh" moment: Of course it had merit! And of course it can work for absolutely everyone!
And, guess what, it does not cost $150 per month. No pills necessary.
The problem with obesity, particularly in the US, is systemic. Our food is unmitigated garbage and we train our kids to eat and crave this garbage from early childhood times. By the time they become young adults they are well on their way to a life of dealing with weight problems and a straight line into diabetes and other ailments.
You can't fix inflammation from food with pills, unless you want to be popping them for the rest of your life and end-up with other problems because of it.
This is going to sound weird: I am always astounded by how much I have learned by raising and training GSD's (German Shepherd Dogs). Stay with me for a second.
One of our GSD's developed a very serious problem a number of years ago. His skin smelled horrible and he lost all hear from his chest and belly. His coat looked dull, almost dead.
Not knowing what was going on I sought advice from our vet. He suggested I take him to a veterinary dermatologist. $2,500 and bunch of shots and pills later, we went home with a plan. Pop pills every day. Get this magical shot once a month.
Sure enough, in about four weeks his coat was nice and shinny again, his skin didn't smell and hair started to come back to his chest.
Back we went for another shot and more pills. This was running about $600 per month. The dermatologist said he'd have to be on this program for the rest of his life. Wow.
I decided to reach out to a number of GSD groups and breeders. A theme emerged from these conversations very quickly: Change his food. He is having allergic reaction to his food. Stop the nonsense the dermatologist is selling you.
So, I did. I figured I could try for a couple months and, if nothing changed, go back to the treatment.
We went with a high quality food with twice the protein content and far less junk carbs, etc.
Less than a month later this dog was in what I might describe as the best shape of his life. He looked great, was happy, didn't have smelly skin, his coat grew back on this chest and belly and was pretty much the picture of a healthy dog. This was many years ago. He has been on this better-food diet every since and looks and feels wonderful.
We have lost sense of just how important good food is for our bodies and minds. We accept that the garbage we buy at the market and restaurants is normal. Well, it isn't. This is the problem. The vet dermatologist was administering a government approved drug to my dog. It worked. And yet that was not really the solution, because it did not address the underlying problem. And that's the issue I have this startup. It isn't a solution. At all. Nobody needs this to lose weight.
You: Nonsense, and to prove it, here's another long personal anecdote.
The obesity epidemic in this nation isn't caused by people are eating good food and exercising. It is caused by the kinds of things my examples illustrate. And yes, in this case, there happens to be a single basic truth: People are eating too much and too much crap.
You might want to poke fun at what I am saying, come back with contemptuous responses, kill me with downvotes and flagging. And yet, the obesity epidemic has rendered every single weight loss program, drug or magical juju bean "solution", ineffective, even harmful. I wonder how many people have been hurt badly by horrendous weight loss/gain cycles as a direct result of these "solutions"?
Our problem is not solved with drugs, supplements and magical programs.
Our obesity problem is a far deeper issue that requires intervention into our industrialized food system as well as a rethink of our educational choices.
What's really interesting to me is that in this entire incident NOT ONE PERSON has countered my claim that the real problem is bad food and bad habits. That's interesting.
Also, not one person has said something like "No, you are wrong, thermodynamics doesn't work that way...you can eat four times the carb/sugar-laden food you should eat on a daily basis, sit in front of the TV and still maintain good health".
No, all the negative reaction is pretty much about being offended for my strong reaction to yet another easy weight loss scheme that, based on recorded weight loss industry history is going to be no different from everything else we have seen. Only this time it is YC backed, so, I guess that's OK.
In engineering we are trained (or should be trained) to perform real --not imaginary-- root cause analysis in order to understand how to solve a problem. When you do that with regards to obesity, absolutely everything points to bad food, bad choices, bad personal habits and bad education. That's it. This is the root cause package, if you will. And none of this is fixed with a pill. Temporarily, maybe. Long term? No way.
Yes, it works, and maybe it works easy & side-effect free for some, but tbh I'd rather be overweight and die 10 years earlier, than live like that.
An important takeaway from all this is that people react very differently to similar regimes, and projecting our own (successful) experience of a regime onto someone else is likely to not represent their experience.
>Yes, I am yelling.
If pills work then what's the problem? It seems to me that you're making an appeal to nature (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-nature). Given all the health problems associated with obesity from cancer to cardiovascular problems then whatever side effects the pills have are probably negligible in comparison.
> Weight management isn't at all about eating less. It's about not eating food that actively want to slowly kill you and, yes, engaging in a modicum of exercise in order to deal with insulin resistance, keep bones strong, etc.
Yes nutrition and exercise are important, but even if it's common knowledge it's obviously working like abstinence based sexual education is working to prevent STDs and teenage pregnancy because like we have a natural urge to sex we also have a natural urge to eat calories and while saving energy.
> "Take this pill...we will save you". Sick.
A lot of pills are necessary to prolong and maintain quality of life. What's "sick" about this?
This includes myself. I recently put on a bit of weight and I know exactly why: second servings, having a few beers, difficulties sticking to a diet with kids and dietary allergies in the house, no time or too lazy for exercise. It's all on me.
Something that can be fixed by just putting your mind to it shouldn't have to be treated with pills.
For some people it will probably be the hardest thing they ever do - I'm not downplaying this. So, for people who don't have the willpower pills is probably the best solution.
Important to emphasize there is a large variety of causes: stress eating is certainly a big part for a lot of people, but it's far from universal & far from the whole story.
"Something that can be fixed by just putting your mind to it shouldn't have to be treated with pills" is I think an interesting statement. I'm unconvinced "putting your mind to it" is as simple as it's made out to be.
Back when I was in university, I decided to simply "put my mind to it" and went from 100kg->65kg in one year. That weight stayed off for the better part of half a decade.
"Simply" doing the same thing now, though, with all of the competing priorities I have (young child, growing business, burned out wife and a constantly shifting set of rules and uncertainty with the pandemic), is a different story. I think men especially are hesitant to come to terms with this because it means admitting weakness.
Thanks for creating this product, Rich. I really wish you success.
Even for those, should'nt the solution be a stronger detox, intervention, stricter regimen to have external help in supplementing their willpower, etc?
Should'nt this be preferred over pills?
Same for things like anxiety, insomnia, ...
Obesity increased with the increase of meal size, average caloric intake and urbanization based around cars.
And your sob story? Do you think you are the only person in the world who has had to deal with stress? This is ridiculous. How about this for stress: My grandparents were genocide survivors. They saw portions of their family killed in the most horrific ways. And they somehow managed that and moved on. Me, personally, I've had one pretty horrific business failure that drove me to the edge of understanding why people take their own lives after ending-up in the hospital twice due to stress.
WE DO NOT NEED PILLS!
Yes, I am yelling.
We need action on better food quality and education. People are filling themselves up with nothing but crap. Ketogenic diets and balanced living work, 100% of the the time. Exercise and activity is the magic "pill" that manages stress.
Frankly, I am astounded that YC would fund and support something like this. I don't care about your credentials and sob story. This is an abomination. Yes, you are likely to make billions. Congratulations. You are not going to fix a damn thing. All you are going to accomplish is to get millions of people hooked on yet another "once daily" legal drug of some sort.
If you truly cared about helping people you would work towards fixing what's actually wrong rather than getting millions of people to pop pills.
What when they stop? Huh?
They will have developed no good habits at all. They will not have a clue as to how to manage stress. They sure as fuck are not going to understand that exercise is important and necessary. They are not going to become discerning about what they eat. And our industrialized toxic food industry isn't going to change a thing. They will pop your pills as they suck-in a two liter drink with insane amounts of sugar and inhale cheap carbohydrates in their burritos, burgers, pizza, etc.
Weight management isn't at all about eating less. It's about not eating food that actively want to slowly kill you and, yes, engaging in a modicum of exercise in order to deal with insulin resistance, keep bones strong, etc.
I've had my own battles with this. Lots of people do. Until I finally listened to my wife (an MD). So I proposed an experiment: I would do no exercise at all other than taking walks with her a few evenings per week. She was pushing me to take-up a low carb ketogenic-style diet. As an engineer, I wanted to isolate exercise from a change in eating habits. That's what we did. And the results were hard to ignore. It was slow going, but the fat just came off --without having to run a marathon every day to burn extra calories. I eat as much as I want. No restrictions other than "don't eat garbage/sugars/simple carbs, etc.". After dropping two pant sizes and feeling "normal" again I can now go for the finishing touch and add exercise to this in the form of strength training.
The most important outcome was to reeducate myself about what and how I should be eating. That's it. It's as simple as that. No drug is going to do that. Ever. Unless the intent is to hook people for their $149 per month in perpetuity.
Sorry, to take such an aggressive tone. This is, to use the term, deplorable. Shame on you. Invest the money educating people on how NOT to use a drug to improve their lives. Pills isn't a long term sustainable solution. You are bound to ruin more lives than you save. And you are not going to do anything about improving the quality of the food that our population consumes.
Think of kids. Their food choices --particularly in the case of lower education parents-- boil down to choices between different kinds of toxic garbage. By the time they leave high school they have already imprinted horrible habits and done damage to their bodies. And now you show up and say "Take this pill...we will save you". Sick.