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Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by jellicle on Saturday July 30, 2011 @09:38AM (#2825723)
Sounds to me like Paul Graham has made a fairly fundamental and common mistake, which is to say believing the AirBnb people when they reassure him that everything is under control and there's no fire here.

Paul, if you actually read the statements made by the CEO on news.ycombinator.com, it's very clear that AirBnb are the primary, if not only, ones at fault here.

I don't want to call Paul a liar, since it seems likely to me that he has just made a mistake of believing someone else. But he's putting his own reputation behind AirBnb, and AirBnb is lying. That's unwise.

Let me compare a different response that I'm familiar with. A friend of mine had her apartment destroyed in the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks. Insurance companies came and set up booths in Manhattan and were cutting checks left and right, without even SEEING the damage. My friend had a check in her hand on 9/13 if I recall correctly. She didn't get in to SEE her own apartment until a month later, and the insurance company didn't see it until much later than that.

As of today and yesterday, there are articles in newspapers across the land. There are phrases like "As of Friday afternoon, Airbnb had not returned calls from The [Washington] Post requesting comment." - that's a quote from a WashPost story, of course. One thing I know: when the Washington Post calls and a company has something good to say about themselves, they take the call (calls, actually).

It's apparent from the latest newspaper stories that AirBnb is now reacting in a cover-it-up fashion - they're trying to offer the woman a sum of money with the condition that she shut up. That's fine, I guess - very corporate of them.

But frankly I expected better. I guess I sort of expected that even if AirBnb was being dumb, that when the first article hit news.yc, that someone would call them and straighten them out. Instead it seems that PG, also, is blinded by "going to be as big as Ebay".

Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by breck on Saturday July 30, 2011 @12:22PM (#2826063)
> it's very clear that AirBnb are the primary, if not only, ones at fault here.

No. Some terrible human being who should be in jail is at fault here.

Airbnb and YC are all run by great people. Responding to a crisis like this is never easy. Responding to your first crisis like this is hardest of all.

I wouldn't blame Michael Arrington at all, either. I think he's done a great job at reporting this. But it's not his first rodeo, for some of the other people involved it is, and so I'm not surprised they've made some mistakes.

Also, in regard to the so called "coverup", it's totally natural when someone says bad things about you on the internet to ask them to take them down. That's not a "cover up". That's "being human". Imagine if someone posted a diatribe against one of your children. As a parent, wouldn't you want to get that taken down? Airbnb is these guys' baby.

I grew up in a political family and all the time my father and my family would get slammed in the paper and online. I used to have a knee jerk reaction and email people asking them to take things down. It hurts when people say shit about you, especially if you haven't developed really think skin. EJ is a great writer, so it makes the post that much more stinging. It shouldn't be taken down, but we shouldn't imagine Airbnb's asking for it to be taken down some nefarious "coverup". It's only human.

Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by scottkduncan on Saturday July 30, 2011 @02:00PM (#2826255)
This is the first big PR blow-up for Airbnb, but they are not a brand new company any more and they had to expect that they would have an event like this (or even worse, a rape or murder) that would raise questions about their business model and force them to respond publicly. The weak response to date shows that either A) they weren't anticipating this likely bump in the road or, B) they were anticipating it and their gameplan was to try to cover it up. Either of those circumstances is disappointing to me.
Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by billswift on Sunday July 31, 2011 @12:52PM (#2828776)
Or C, they had a plan for it, but when it actually happened they panicked, forgot the plan, and stuck their foot in it up to their armpit. Many people who have not had to deal with sudden difficulties don't seem to realize just how strong the tendency is to forget plans, intentions, and just do whatever you first think of. That is why serious martial artists, the military, and EMTs train, and train, and train some more. They have to respond correctly even when they aren't expecting problems to crop up.
Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by kragen on Saturday July 30, 2011 @03:49PM (#2826537)
> Also, in regard to the so called "coverup", it's totally natural when someone says bad things about you on the internet to ask them to take them down. That's not a "cover up". That's "being human". Imagine if someone posted a diatribe against one of your children. As a parent, wouldn't you want to get that taken down? Airbnb is these guys' baby.

It's totally natural, but it's dishonest. It's destroying the historical record. It's depriving the public of their opportunity to make up their own minds about what the truth is. Cheating and stealing and killing are part of "being human", too, but that doesn't mean we have to condone them.

Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by ceejayoz on Saturday July 30, 2011 @12:26PM (#2826068)
> No. Some terrible human being who should be in jail is at fault here.

Not really, at least where the unfolding PR catastrophe is concerned.

Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by quanticle on Sunday July 31, 2011 @04:06AM (#2827887)
>I used to have a knee jerk reaction and email people asking them to take things down.

And how well did that work out for you (and your dad)? The knee-jerk reaction is as primitive and counterproductive as it is understandable. The AirBnB founders aren't naifs to the Internet. They understand the Streisand Effect. It might be understandable for them to want EJ to take down her blog post. But to actually go out and ask her? That's inviting trouble, and the executives at AirBnB had to have known that.

Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by breck on Sunday July 31, 2011 @01:54PM (#2828985)
It never worked. :)
Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by freshfunk on Sunday July 31, 2011 @12:41PM (#2828733)
>Also, in regard to the so called "coverup", it's totally natural when someone says bad things about you on the internet to ask them to take them down. That's not a "cover up". That's "being human".

I believe PG used the word "bullshit" in his slander against Arrington's reporting. This isn't PG's "first rodeo" either and so such strong words can't easily be chalked up to just "being human" IMHO.

Arrington's a report and PG's an investor. They both have their motives for acting/reacting in certain ways.

I think the mistake being made here is to assume that any party is necessarily "great people" without actually knowing them personally (YC, AirBnb, Arrington, PG, etc.). Even EJ has motivations in making as much noise as possible (ie. her compensation for damages will likely be much better now).

Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by true_religion on Saturday July 30, 2011 @10:09AM (#2825788)
Air BNB is specifically not an insurrance company.

They technically have no obligation to pay in the case of any damage.

For them, the best possible course of action was to bury this case. However, now that it's come into the public light they're torn between (a) trying to re-iterate to everyone that they do not have liability and (b) trying to look good by doing the "Right Thing".

As a business owner, I feel for them. As a human being, I feel for her. I too am torn, and think that there is going to be no satisfactory resolution to this situation. Someone is not going to come away 'whole', and most likely it will be AirBNB.

Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by geekfactor on Saturday July 30, 2011 @11:39AM (#2825967)
The irony of course is that the story didn't go viral for almost a month after it was written. That was plenty of time for them to make things right, take good care of the woman, and get an NDA and non-disparagement agreement in place. Based on her account they didn't even attempt to do so. Instead they chose to "let it ride" and as a result have lost way more in goodwill than this could have ever cost them "making things right."
Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by bugsy on Saturday July 30, 2011 @03:49PM (#2826536)
I think there is a pretty good legal argument that they had a duty to know the actual identity of each party. They failed to do that. When her house was trashed the first thing she did is ask them the real identity of the person who rented and then they revealed they had absolutely no idea whatsoever. This is a huge surprise to me, it was to her, and it is to everybody that isn't trying to defend this company's massive incompetence. The fact that they don't know the identity of the parties is openly misrepresented by their materials which indicate that the transaction is safe and intentionally try to distract the customer with jokes about the difficulty of moving grand pianos, which are an item few people would have in their house anyway.
Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by kragen on Saturday July 30, 2011 @03:55PM (#2826558)
> I think there is a pretty good legal argument that they had a duty to know the actual identity of each party.

I think that's absurd. Would you say the same thing about Craigslist?

> The fact that they don't know the identity of the parties is openly misrepresented by their materials which indicate that the transaction is safe and intentionally try to distract the customer with jokes about the difficulty of moving grand pianos

That's not how I read it at all. They don't claim to know the identity of the other party; they claim that the transaction is safe. Which, it appears, it is. If they've had 2 million nights booked, that's maybe a quarter of a million bookings, and (they claim) this is the first time anything like this has happened. That's pretty safe!

I read the joke about the grand piano as an admission that the only thing that's preventing people from using Airbnb to rob people is that robbing people is generally hard and unprofitable.

Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by BasDirks on Saturday July 30, 2011 @11:09AM (#2825914)
The insurance company technically had no obligation to be as humane as they were. That's the point :D
Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by jmtame on Saturday July 30, 2011 @11:21AM (#2825936)
True. But the people getting the checks weren't writing blog posts warning people not to buy apartments in NYC either. I'm not saying Airbnb is right or wrong, but to make a matter like that a public spectacle might influence insurance companies to behave differently, not just Airbnb.
Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by jcc80 on Saturday July 30, 2011 @01:27PM (#2826182)
Not only are they not an insurance company, but they aren't mental health professionals either. I understand the woman wants help but it sounds like initially the CS reps were very kind and asking her how she's doing etc. Then, a co-founder gets involved and it's all business and that's when things took a turn.

I've ripped on them for asking her to take down the blog -that was a huge d-bag move. But, it's not their jobs to be this woman's counselor. I imagine if I was in a similar position I would rely on family & friends. Not a company & their investors. I mean, after they cut a check (which doesn't sound like it's happened) how often are they supposed to call and ask how she's doing?

Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by jamesteow on Saturday July 30, 2011 @02:57PM (#2826385)
Absolutely.

I'm not one of those who feels that Airbnb has to compensate her for everything or even anything.

BUT, I do think Airbnb needed to do more to inform potential users about the risks involved. No, I'm not talking about a microsite or bolding fine print on their terms of use... I'm talking about messaging along the process.

As I said in another part of this thread, Craigslist does a good job of messaging on the search results page and on the actual posts itself by displaying links on how to avoid being scammed.

On an eBay product page, there is a large buyers protection module and additional text near the product description like "Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing."

While some people aren't going to read them, they at least help set expectations.

Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by efsavage on Sunday July 31, 2011 @09:58AM (#2828327)
> As a business owner, I feel for them. As a human being, I feel for her

Separating the two is what causes situations like this.

Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by clobber on Saturday July 30, 2011 @12:40PM (#2826095)
Now you have to be an insurance company to do the "right thing"? Airbnb had a chance to take care of this from the very beginning and we wouldn't even be talking about this right now if they had. That's the point.
Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by chc on Saturday July 30, 2011 @05:12PM (#2826785)
The thing that you're describing as "the right thing" is the function of an insurance company.
Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by clobber on Saturday July 30, 2011 @06:09PM (#2826935)
I'm describing Airbnb averting a PR nightmare (which this has become). This is a pretty valuable lesson for any startup.
Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by jpdoctor on Saturday July 30, 2011 @02:32PM (#2826320)
FTA: "Even if you don’t believe they are nice guys (which they are, among the nicest of all the people we’ve funded)"

Why anyone would believe somebody with a vested financial interest is beyond me.

Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by Ulankgz on Saturday July 30, 2011 @03:34PM (#2826483)
>It's apparent from the latest newspaper stories that AirBnb is now reacting in a cover-it-up fashion - they're trying to offer the woman a sum of money with the condition that she shut up. That's fine, I guess - very corporate of them.

In this situation, when the scandal has matured it's too late to cover up. If Airbnb guys believe in their rightness, they are obliged to defend it openly and strongly in all media. Then they have a chance to get unscrewed. And if these guys will continue to fuss and to get nervous it will only make things worse. The main thing is not to make more stupid and unnecessary mistakes

[deleted]
Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by mypov on Saturday July 30, 2011 @01:55PM (#2826241)
Your comment is unnecessarily aggressive and the facts available to you can not possibly support making such a statement.
Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by jpdoctor on Saturday July 30, 2011 @05:20PM (#2826814)
> and the facts available to you

OK, time for a quiz. Someone who has made an investment is going to take the side that is

a. good for investment returns, or

b. bad for investment returns.

This isn't rocket science. And if basic observations of human nature are "unnecessarily agressive", then so be it.

Re:How The Hell Is This My Fault? by jpdoctor on Saturday July 30, 2011 @08:12PM (#2827171)
Ug. You were replying to a deleted comment. My apologies.

I'd delete my comment if possible, but the delete key has vanished.