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Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by whywhywhywhy on Friday August 06, 2021 @01:11PM (#28090092)
The extreme modular approach, while a strength in some situations is also the reason why you will never be able to build something like MacOS on any of that infrastructure.

It will always have little bits of jank, always have inconsistencies and although all it does is draw objects on a screen it just doesn't do it to the level of quality as in tear and flicker free that MacOS can manage.

Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by pxc on Friday August 06, 2021 @02:46PM (#28091309)
And yet actual window management on macOS is bizarre (wtf is with the maximization behavior, that it seems each app can decide on its own) and inflexible. Tiling, snapping, alt-drag, and shading are all missing. Automation, used to emulate those features, is cumbersome, slow, and, yesβ€” janky. (It's way more work to customize or automate window behavior on macOS than on Plasma, for example.)

Pretty much every actual window management feature on macOS aside from dragging windows by the titlebar is janky as hell. :-\

(It is neat that display server crashes/restarts on macOS don't cause you to lose your graphical session, though. Idk if any F/OSS WMs have that.)

Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by machinevision on Friday August 06, 2021 @03:28PM (#28091743)
Couldn't agree more. It used to be much better. I remember on Mac OS 8, the window manager made intuitive sense and got out of the way in most cases.

I don't know when it deteriorated on Mac OS X, but I've recently started to use Rectangle a lot (https://rectangleapp.com/). This has been really useful.

Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by jen20 on Friday August 06, 2021 @03:12PM (#28091608)
> wtf is with the maximization behavior

There isn't a maximise behaviour. Per the interface guidance, that button is called "zoom" [1], not maximise, and it therefore makes sense that apps do something different depending on what they need to zoom in a way that makes sense for them.

[1]: https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...

Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by wmf on Friday August 06, 2021 @04:11PM (#28092197)
Zoom was replaced with maximize in Lion in 2011.
Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by jen20 on Friday August 06, 2021 @05:03PM (#28092715)
Someone should probably tell the team that writes the docs then...

The button now serves dual purpose as "full screen" and "zoom" (with option). It's not "maximise" though.

Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by irae on Friday August 06, 2021 @03:03PM (#28091506)
The UX discussion is not directly related to the technical discussion. Apple has its own history and more than one mode is supported. Feels to me somewhat of a legacy problem.

That said, their stability and flexibility is unmatched. Windows got a lot better recently, and they have a harder surface to deal with (orders of magnitude more hardware to support). But from an outsiders perspective Apple's feel like the best balance right now.

Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by whywhywhywhy on Friday August 06, 2021 @06:11PM (#28093352)
I almost never maximize windows and if you're someone who uses their desktop spatially like me MacOS is the only OS that manages to offer a usable and jank free version of that.

Windows and Linux just can't come close. I get why Linux never will for good reasons but Windows has absolutely no excuse.

Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by AshamedCaptain on Friday August 06, 2021 @01:28PM (#28090324)
Ridiculous, specially considering OS X's display server is actually rooted on Display PostScript of all things.
Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by huxley on Friday August 06, 2021 @03:10PM (#28091589)
Display Postscript got dropped after Rhapsody/MacOS X Server 1.x.

None of the 10.0+ releases of macOS used DP, instead it used Quartz2D, eventually added OpenGL to the mix, and now uses a combo of Quartz and Metal.

Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by AshamedCaptain on Friday August 06, 2021 @03:43PM (#28091894)
And you forget the (Quartz/Display) PDF era. The point is, the window server on OS X is about an order of magnitude more historical than that of X, so the argument above is ridiculous.
Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by whywhywhywhy on Friday August 06, 2021 @06:15PM (#28093384)
Just because it's older doesn't mean it's worse. Next had designers and a product person CEO working on it, X11 did not.

End of the day one can drag windows around smoothly and resize them without flickering and have consistent drag and drop etc and the other does not.

Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by AshamedCaptain on Friday August 06, 2021 @06:16PM (#28093395)
> Just because it's older doesn't mean it's worse.

No, it doesn't. But means one cannot claim "it will always have little bits of jank, always have inconsistencies although all it does is draw objects on a screen" just because it is old, since it turns out it actually isn't. X11 does have a lot of cruft, but so does WindowServer.

> End of the day one can drag windows around smoothly and resize them without flickering and have consistent drag and drop etc and the other does not.

That is just a lie. I can easily make Firefox flicker on OS X while resizing and I can easily resize say Gtk+3 windows on X without flickering. And I have almost 3 4k displays...

Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by pxc on Saturday August 07, 2021 @01:17PM (#28100187)
Drag and drop isn't really a window management feature, right? It's a kind of uniform IPC for GUI apps, mostly a way to talk about files and clipboard contents (temporary files, I guess). At any rate, it has nothing to do with the display server.

That said, I do agree that I would generally expect even older Apple codebases to be less crufty than stuff like Xorg. Apple rips out legacy APIs and rewrites things pretty ruthlessly on basically every macOS release.

Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by agumonkey on Friday August 06, 2021 @03:03PM (#28091511)
is Display Postscript bad ?
Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by huxley on Friday August 06, 2021 @03:12PM (#28091604)
For it's time it was actually pretty amazing but it hasn't been used by Apple in over 20 years.
Re:A macOS-like operating system based on FreeBSD by wmf on Friday August 06, 2021 @04:14PM (#28092232)
Serializing drawing commands into text, sending them over a socket, then parsing them seems wasteful. Also I think NeXT had to pay Adobe.