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Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by kelnos on Thursday July 29, 2021 @02:33PM (#27999837)
I don't really understand this attitude, or line of reasoning, or whatever you want to call it.

Sure, if a company does something that you find reprehensible, not giving them further money (or attention) is certainly a reasonable -- and honorable! -- thing to do.

But if you've already purchased a standalone[0], non-subscription product from that company, and that company doesn't gain any benefit from your further use of that product (or lose anything from you stopping use), I feel like you're only hurting yourself if you stop using it.

I will concede that if the act of playing one of these standalone games makes you think of the bad thing the company did and makes you angry/upset, I guess it makes sense to stop playing them. But unless the bad thing they did is something personally/viscerally important to you, it feels like that's a bit of an odd trigger.

[0] If the game is multiplayer, and connects to a company-run server, I guess you could make the argument that they benefit in some way from their active-users numbers being higher. I personally don't find that argument all that compelling, but everyone can of course decide where the cutoff of benefit is for them.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by ctrl-j on Thursday July 29, 2021 @02:57PM (#28000029)
One of the things that companies rely on these days is engagement and playerbase. If you don't find that compelling, that's up to you, but Blizzard invests millions every year into maintaining their playerbase - so at least they find it compelling.

Just by being a part of the starcraft community, you are providing support to activision blizzard.

If we were talking about offline-only non-community driven content, sure... but this is a company that is almost entirely driven off of multiplayer games.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by lapetitejort on Thursday July 29, 2021 @04:55PM (#28001390)
To play Starcraft II, one must open Battle.net, potentially exposing themselves to ads for the latest shiny game, and may lead them to break their boycott by buying said game. Having to visit the store to use the product changes the dynamic. If I bought a widget from the widget store, then found out the owner sexually harassed their employees, I would continue to use the widget while boycotting the store because I would never have to visit it. But if I had to occasionally bring in the widget for a free cleaning, I'd stop using it.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by bakuninsbart on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:26PM (#28000336)
Some of the best fiction was written by people with absolutely despicable opinions like Francois Céline or Knut Hamsun. You can see it in their art, but their art isn't limited to it, and still holds a lot of value. Friedrich Nietzsche's opinions on women and politics are plain dumb, yet his other thought can be extremely compelling, and he is rightfully one of the most influential thinkers of modern times.

Going back further in time will only make you miserable if you hold the work closely accountable to the person. Terrible people can still say really good things, and I don't believe it is different with games or modern entertainment in general. Old Blizzard games are still good, and old Louis CK sets are still funny.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by aftergibson on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:57PM (#28000702)
Celine and Hamsun aren’t getting engagement activity from their in-app analytics. They also can’t respond to all of the legitimate criticisms against them. Activision can and they’ve decided to bring in the Pinkertons.

At the end of the day, another player booting up an Activision game is another (tiny) data point that says whatever activity Activision/Blizzard is engaging in is a-ok with that player. It’s not revenue driving right now, but in 6-12 months, this has blown over and enough of the tiny subset of temporarily outraged players will eventually start to generate revenue. That’s what they’re banking on.

Decide what you care about or don’t, but at least accept/own the impact of your decisions and don’t conflate the situation with century old authors.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by dylan604 on Thursday July 29, 2021 @04:13PM (#28000895)
>whatever activity Activision/Blizzard is engaging in is a-ok with that player

This is definitely how Activision/Blizzard will interpret it. However, not every single gamer is tuned into these kinds of stories about the game makers. Some will be totally unawares of any of the shenanigans that occur behind the game. Not everybody has the time and/or interest for that. Just like people do/don't care about Amazon, Walmart, Nike, etc. Someone that does care will bring to light something that may garner media attention. Some people will see that, and get worked up about it. However, the majority of people will be just as happy to put their head back in the sand and continue on with their day-to-day.

I also came here to see if anyone else was calling that Activision/Blizzard's next move were to call in the Pinkertons.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by aftergibson on Thursday July 29, 2021 @05:48PM (#28001913)
I completely agree that you can’t act on what you don’t know. It’s almost impossible to act as an entirely ethical consumer today, who could know if a suppliers, suppliers supplier is doing something dodgy?

But let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water here. This case however is a pretty simple B2C relationship and if a consumer is aware of what Activision is up to and continues to support through revenue or engagement, simply accept that you don’t care about these issues enough to change your behaviour, we all make compromises in life.

What I’d like to avoid is consumers deluding themselves into thinking that playing Starcraft is fine because it’s the same as people buying the books of dead racists.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by falcolas on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:47PM (#28000555)
One small difference between those specific artists and Activison-Blizzard - they're dead. But more importantly, their beliefs are also a product of their times.

ACTI doesn't have that excuse. They're all with us now, and their actions don't have the shield of being reasonable in the society they exist in.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by temp_account001 on Thursday July 29, 2021 @05:19PM (#28001625)
Why should we value greatness more than morality? Should the magnitude of someone's impact overshadow the morality of their impact?

Opinions of celebrities don't exist in some sort of extra-dimensional cloistered thought bubble; they influence other minds and affect society in very real and measurable ways. Amplifying the celebrity status of these individuals by cherry-picking their acceptable works will in turn, unavoidably, also amplify their less-acceptable opinions -- though probably not by the same magnitude. But in general the masses are terrible at sorting out "oh, this is a righteous opinion that I should listen to" vs "this is a despicable one by the same person, but I have the intellectual & emotional maturity to be able to compartmentalize it". We're too tribal a species, on the average, for that. Our brains, societies, and cultures have not evolved to effectively handle multiculturalism well, ivory-tower internet freethinkers notwithstanding.

The flipside of cancel culture is moral nihilism, in which speech has no consequence and exists purely as a form of harmless intellectual exercise. But that's just not how it works in the real world. Speech has consequence, and for those wishing to prevent those consequences, sometimes ignoring the speaker and refusing to amplify their voice is the only realistic option they have, if they have no power to censor them outright or sufficiently amplify contrary opinions of their own. A canceled author isn't really very different from a boycotted company; it's a moral vote by a like-minded mass of humans who together value their version of morality more than that author's impacts. It's really not that difficult to not be an outspoken asshole.

Saying "I don't want to read this book" or "I don't want to play this game" because you don't like the author's values is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. It's very different from, say, government ban lists. So what if someone doesn't want to read Harry Potter or watch Weinstein movies anymore?

Back to the first question: why ought greatness be the measure of a person, instead of righteousness? Our species is largely full of mediocre apes with mediocre thoughts who nonetheless manage to coexist and thrive to some degree, yet are all too often led astray and into peril and evil by the "great" Machiavellian few among them. How does that help anything at all?

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by mnowicki on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:43PM (#28000507)
What we're Nietzsche's opinions on politics/women? I'm not surprised based on the bit of his work that I read that he has some unappealing thoughts on women, but am surprised to here his politics may be problematic as well(aside from the whole nazi affiliation thing - which as I understand is a misrepresentation of his work by his sister and her Nazi husband).
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by boomboomsubban on Thursday July 29, 2021 @04:18PM (#28000949)
Nietzsche was ultimately pro authoritarianism and anti liberalism. His view on women is fairly standard nineteenth century misogyny, like how he "compliments" them by saying they are more clever and wicked than men.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by acituan on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:51PM (#28000625)
You missed Heidegger being an outright Nazi, and not even a rank-and-file one.

Not being able to relate to an other if they are not pure is a failure in having strong enough ego boundaries. High functioning requires complexification of our boundaries; a confidence in deciding what goes in and what doesn't on the fly without requiring rigid codification of rules, which ultimately requires a confidence in ourselves; what we are and what we are not.

All-or-nothing purity is a way of keeping things simple and reducing the complex calculus the reality demands. Not saying this in a demeaning manner, because we all do this in varying degrees. But if one can't tell if they are being a "bad" person or not for making use of a "bad" person's valid idea/product, that could as well be a shortcoming of their own self-conceptualization than the "badness" of the other.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by user-the-name on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:37PM (#28000457)
Terrible people can say good things, but there are a million good people out there saying good things that you could listen to instead.

Why spend the limited time you have in this world on consuming the works of terrible people? There is more out there than you could possibly experience in a lifetime. Why not dedicate that time to people who are not awful?

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by harpersealtako on Thursday July 29, 2021 @04:01PM (#28000749)
There are a million authors worth reading if your standards are low enough, but there's only one Friedrich Nietzsche.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by user-the-name on Thursday July 29, 2021 @07:13PM (#28002628)
There are plenty, plenty of people who are as good or better to read.

There is only one of any given person, that is not an argument to read them either.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by yowlingcat on Thursday July 29, 2021 @10:30PM (#28003807)
A problem with privileging "good" is that it is socially constructed, and social constructions of good can sometimes reveal themselves rather painfully to be fads of the time which ironically are anything but good, such as Lysenkoism [1].

On the contrary, real insights tend to stand the test of time, which is why Nietzsche continues to remain relevant and timeless. Lysenkoism, not so much.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by user-the-name on Friday July 30, 2021 @04:17AM (#28005692)
You are somehow turning a remote possibility into a near-certainty in this argument.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by nate_meurer on Friday July 30, 2021 @11:27AM (#28009038)
There's more than a remote possibility that anyone you think is worth learning from has done or said things that other people consider awful.

Your logic is exactly the reason many people tell us we shouldn't bother learning too much about, say, the founders of American democracy.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by user-the-name on Saturday July 31, 2021 @05:19AM (#28016611)
Why do you care with "other people" think?

You should have a strong moral compass, and you should be able to tell right from wrong, and awful from decent. And you should let that compass guide you in everything you do, including who you give the precious resource that is your attention to.

Framing it as "other people consider awful" makes it sound like you do not actually agree that awful people are all that bad, and that is a moral failing on your part.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by nate_meurer on Saturday July 31, 2021 @10:25AM (#28018390)
No, you completely missed the point.

Everybody has done and said awful things. If you don't want to read the works of sinners, then you won't be able to learn from anyone.

My example highlighted folks like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, unrepentant slaveholders who happen to be keystones of American democracy. They said and did awful things in life. Do you think therefore that you have nothing to learn from them?

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by manofmanysmiles on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:43PM (#28000510)
Learning from an “awful” person helps you grow as a person.

Also understanding the enemy.

Also not all “consuming” of work is for “entertainment”.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by user-the-name on Thursday July 29, 2021 @07:12PM (#28002617)
Does it, though? Does it do that in a way that's better than just paying attention to people who aren't awful? I'm really not convinced here.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by akudha on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:52PM (#28000635)
I guess different people draw lines at different levels. And it is a personal decision. One extreme would be to just care about the art and not the artist at all (especially if the artist is long dead and lived in a completely different era) and the other extreme would be to only support artists who we think are nice people. I suppose most people would fall somewhere in between.

We still celebrate conquerers like Genghis Khan after hundreds of years, even though they brought a ton of misery (especially Genghis, who was known for his cruelty) to the people they conquered and often to their own people. The pyramids, great wall of China etc were all built on the death of tens of thousands of workers.

Sometimes the more we learn, the more depressing it gets (Ignorance is bliss? lol)

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by donmcronald on Thursday July 29, 2021 @02:57PM (#28000026)
Maybe it’s just a normal thing as you get older, but knowing the company mistreated people sucks the fun out of it for me. I’m not completely against playing the stuff I’ve already paid for, but they won’t get another penny from me.

I’d like to have a database that tracks the C-Suite employees. I’d personally boycott any company that hires any of them. Their careers should be over IMO. I wish we could take away Bobby’s money too, but that’ll never happen.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by akudha on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:57PM (#28000703)
This app has been around for a while https://www.buycott.com/campaign/browse I do not know how good it is.

We should totally not give our money to shitty companies. But global commerce is so intertwined that it would quickly become very difficult to buy anything if we start closely looking at every company we give money to.

I don't know what the solution is. Boycotting is a start.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by cogman10 on Thursday July 29, 2021 @04:51PM (#28001334)
Yeah, it really sucks and points to problems with our weak UN and world governments.

Sure, we may have somewhat high manufacturing standards in the US, but take a step into foreign soil and all the sudden all the rules are out the window. With companies specifically using countries with the weakest safety regs to cut costs.

It's why walmart keeps getting busted for using slave/child labor.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by XMPPwocky on Thursday July 29, 2021 @02:48PM (#27999935)
I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to feel weird about watching old DVDs of the Cosby Show, for example. With the "benefit" of context, the vibes are sort of irrevocably off.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by tcbawo on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:35PM (#28000432)
Bill Cosby's character was a gynecologist whose office was in his basement (!)
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by Phenomenit on Thursday July 29, 2021 @02:52PM (#27999969)
Yet Michael Jacksons music is still played on the radio and in other media contexts.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by anoonmoose on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:03PM (#28000108)
Better comparison would be R. Kelly who, like Cosby, was actually convicted of what he was accused of, and did end up having a lot of radio stations (and other media contexts) stop using his music. Not all, but a good number.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by waterhouse on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:30PM (#28000381)
I googled around, and ... has R. Kelly been convicted? Searching https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Kelly for the string "convict" yields only the sentence saying "R. Kelly had not ever actually been convicted of any crime", quoting a news article from 2019. There is mention of a "sentencing trial", but the cited article (from Dec 2020) says he has pled not guilty and that evidence will be presented, which also sounds like it hasn't reached the conviction stage. And recent news results don't mention convictions (other than "If convicted") either.

Do you have a citation?

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by anoonmoose on Thursday July 29, 2021 @07:21PM (#28002711)
Uh, damn, you're right. Honestly, he's been in jail for so long now- 2.5 years and 22 counts against him- that I wrongly assumed/forgot he wasn't/Mandela effected it.

At the time of this writing I had 13 upvotes for a mostly wrong take. Still maintain that the jail time puts Kelly closer to Cosby than Jackson.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by afavour on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:02PM (#28000084)
The allegations against Jackson surfaced while he was still very famous so you could argue it’s already been “priced in”, for want of a better phrase.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by yaseer on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:21PM (#28000287)
Aside, but there seems to be a much higher level of collective cognitive dissonance with Michael Jackson, perhaps because of his stature in popular culture. I'm guilty of this myself - my brain sets a higher bar for evidence, perhaps unreasonably.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by Phenomenit on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:32PM (#28000402)
Yeah, his music is so deeply ingrained in my mind that the "new" information doesn't stick. I have to many fond memories associated with his music and art that it always takes a few seconds for my mind to change course.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by steaknsteak on Thursday July 29, 2021 @04:04PM (#28000785)
He's also dead, so it's not like he is personally benefitting from our enjoyment of his music anyway.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by klyrs on Thursday July 29, 2021 @04:20PM (#28000980)
Yeah, same. As a lifelong fan of the genre, I think R. Kelly's work is boring pastiche, almost entirely forgettable (notable exception, "I believe I can fly" does have some nostalgic value). So it's never been a challenge to put his music away...
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by aeturnum on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:36PM (#28000445)
I think for many people, but certainly not all, the wider culture of an escapist work is important. Looking at a fanciful image doesn't automagically distract you, there needs to be some amount of collaboration between your mind and the media you're consuming. You need to accept what it offers as an alternative. That can be harder for people when they learn about how things were really made. It would be hard to take a work arguing against slavery seriously, for instance, if it used slavery to produce it.

I also think that these kinds of products, because they are indivisible creative works, suffer from rotting from within. Where you might be able to use the "reasonable" parts of Facebook or Google, once you start to think about a core element of a narrative as being in-geunine or compromised, that can undermine the other elements of the story.

Especially in this golden age of game development, I think there are many other alternatives to Blizzard's games that allow people to think less and escape more.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by minusSeven on Friday July 30, 2021 @06:26AM (#28006461)
You buy a game not just to play it but also to support developers. If you don't give a shit about this part you can always pirate it. By telling the company you will no longer use their product you are sending a clear cut message about that you a paying customer will no longer use their product.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by supercanuck on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:32PM (#28000403)
In 2021, your attention is a more valuable currency than you're wallet.
[dead]
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by afavour on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:04PM (#28000112)
The thing that gets me about “virtue signalling” is this built-in assumption that no one does anything earnestly, and that every action is performed according to how it’ll be received.

I just don’t believe that’s how the vast majority of people live their lives. OP did what they did because the status quo made them uncomfortable. People don’t have to be soldiers in a mythical cultural war, sometimes they’re just people. Whenever anyone invokes “virtual signalling” I think they’re inadvertently explaining a lot more of their own world view than they are anyone else’s.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by evgen on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:21PM (#28000296)
> The thing that gets me about “virtue signalling” is this built-in assumption that no one does anything earnestly, and that every action is performed according to how it’ll be received.

This is because the people who use the term 'virtue signalling' consider morality to be transactional and cannot comprehend the idea that someone might actually be virtuous or have moral standards beyond which they will not tread. The term itself has now become its own 'virtue signal' to people who hold a particular viewpoint.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by vmarva on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:28PM (#28000356)
No one here said that not a single person in the world doesn't do it just to feel good inside but any person that shares this stuff on any kind social platform clearly does it because they crave approval from others.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by krona on Thursday July 29, 2021 @04:10PM (#28000866)
Aren't you simply signalling your own moral purity by projecting the accusation back onto an accuser, as though it were a league table of moral status?

There was a time when one had to actually do things to be virtuous.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by ctrl-j on Thursday July 29, 2021 @02:59PM (#28000053)
Is your comment just anti-virtue signaling then?

Sometimes people just want to share their opinions, and they actually feel those feelings. Sometimes those feelings are about ethical issues.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by acituan on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:16PM (#28000238)
Feelings alone do not make a rational standpoint. This ex-pressing (pressing outwards) of our feelings was the problem of romanticism, and it has to be balanced with what the reality tells back at us.

In other words, people don't seem to be saying they shouldn't have shared their feelings, but when they did they should have been ready to receive the criticism especially on logical results of their reasoning.

Not using products you've already purchased and enjoyed is most likely not an act of virtue, it probably changes nothing materially in the world to make it a better place. However, it is a display of purity in protest, which might inspire others to take action to the extent they are impressed by it, but it mostly feels egosyntonic for the person who does this demonstration.

Hence the criticism of virtue signaling; it is not the virtue bit, it is the signaling bit, divorced from the essence of being virtuous.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by mcguire on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:35PM (#28000425)
From a rational standpoint, buying and playing games is a waste of time and money.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by PeterisP on Thursday July 29, 2021 @05:50PM (#28001939)
Definitely not - rationality is about a realistic view on the world and effective, perhaps even optimal, acts to achieve your goals, but it's completely, absolutely orthogonal to the nature of these goals. The goals, or perhaps "utility function" in formal terminology are essentially arbitrary from the perspective of rationality; it's generally rational to better understanding of your goals is very useful to effectively meet them, but a key principle is that "the utility function is not up for grabs", rationality is about effectiveness in obtaining what you want, but it does not and cannot constrain what is it that you want.

So IMHO games are a really good example - buying and playing games is a rational allocation of time and money if and only if the outcome (or, to be accurate, the sum of outcomes over long term) of playing games is more fulfilling than the alternatives; and it seems quite plausible that the enjoyment gaining from playing games may be very different for two completely rational actors and thus even from a completely rational standpoint they should make different decisions on whether playing games is a waste of time and money or a great use of them.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by mcguire on Friday July 30, 2021 @05:19PM (#28012500)
Exactly my point: if the current behavior of a company reduces the enjoyment you get from products that you previously bought from that company, you are both justified and rational not to want to use those products, and even to say "I do not want to use these products anymore."

No rational argument can change the original non-rational utility function. And no, there's no "virtue signalling" involved.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by rurp on Thursday July 29, 2021 @05:59PM (#28002004)
I don't understand this at all. You think it's rational to avoid things that one finds fun and interesting? That seems like an extremely suboptimal way to navigate through life.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by Apocryphon on Thursday July 29, 2021 @05:01PM (#28001458)
As is participating in a comments thread discussion such as this. Rationality is too often overrated.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by rapind on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:53PM (#28000653)
I feel like any debate over the term “virtual signaling“ is missing the meta game (along with people who virtue signal or accuse others of virtue signalling).

Like there’s an evil genius(es) with ulterior motives behind it all.

Could just be my cynicism though.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by acituan on Thursday July 29, 2021 @04:07PM (#28000830)
> Like there’s an evil genius(es) with ulterior motives behind it all.

In a sense, I think there is. Instead of a cabal, it is just our collective intelligence getting lost in attractive pockets of irrationality.

I think virtue signaling could be as old as humans, because there are social and psychological benefits to being seen virtuous, without paying the costs of being virtuous.

The more it is demonstrated that people can get away with it, the more we are trained to consider that as an alternative, that we can get away with it too, and collectively we converge to a pit of empty appearances.

That said calling out something as virtue signaling also has failure modes; it is ultimately an accusation of duplicitousness and we can't really be sure of people's intentions. It can also have a chilling effect on genuine enactments of virtue.

Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by aaronbrethorst on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:02PM (#28000087)
Claiming 'virtue signaling' always feels like a presumption of bad faith by the claimant.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by mcguire on Thursday July 29, 2021 @03:45PM (#28000537)
That's because it is. The question to ask, of any argument, is "so what?": what do you want to do about it. The "so what" for an accusation of "virtue signalling" is to dismiss the original statement without any further consideration.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by sangnoir on Thursday July 29, 2021 @04:38PM (#28001188)
In recursive irony, those who use the phrase "virtue signaling" are also virtue signaling, and the it is, in itself a shibboleth for people of a certain political persuasion.
Re:Activision Blizzard Hires Notorious Union-Busting Firm Wi... by vmarva on Thursday July 29, 2021 @06:06PM (#28002070)
Calling out virtue signalling is useful to make people realize that judging a situation or person without having all the facts is damaging to society all around the world. This contributes a lot to the hipocrisy we see in the west nowadays which influences the entire world because of technology.

The outrage generated by all the mass media is not good as far as I'm concerned and it's good to remind people of that.