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Re:Dead Startup Toys by mushufasa on Monday July 12, 2021 @12:41PM (#27812149)
Did One Laptop per Child truly fail as a startup? It was always a nonprofit, so of course it didn't make money.

While the technology was lacking in many respects, it did serve a lot of children at the time, and proved the market that Chromebooks came to later dominate with a similar approach (linux-based OS with minimal resources at $100-300 price point).

Re:Dead Startup Toys by Trufa on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:25PM (#27812735)
Every child in the Uruguayan public system got his/her laptop, I don't know at a global scale but it gave access to the internet/technology to thousands of children that would otherwise wouldn't have. So calling it a total failure seems off to me.
Re:Dead Startup Toys by garmaine on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:10PM (#27813255)
By all accounts they were not really useful, broke easily, and couldn't be repaired in the field. Many countries backed out of their commitment once they tried out their samples. Those which took delivery ended up not integrating them into curriculum because they didn't deliver on their promise.

It did kickstart the "netbook" form factor, which ended up replacing most OLPC use cases. So not a total failure from a technology standpoint, like Juicero and Theranos were. But it is a bit of a poster child for everything that's wrong with the MIT Media Lab.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/16/17233946/olpcs-100-laptop...

Re:Dead Startup Toys by lupire on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:37PM (#27813533)
It didn't kickstart netbooks, which predate OLPC XO by a decade and were far less experimental designs.
Re:Dead Startup Toys by ghaff on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:11PM (#27813839)
There were older subnotebooks of various kinds but "netbooks" by that name are usually associated with small Atom-based machines that Intel was pushing partly in response to OLPC hype. See, e.g., this article from 2009. https://web.archive.org/web/20110130085835/http://blogs.comp...
Re:Dead Startup Toys by jefftk on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:48PM (#27814248)
Netbooks are usually considered to have started in 2007 with the OLPC and eeepc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netbook
Re:Dead Startup Toys by ghaff on Monday July 12, 2021 @12:46PM (#27812231)
>Did One Laptop per Child truly fail as a startup?

I'd say it kind of did (as did Netbooks as a technology for the most part as well).

It's smartphones really that won the segment that OLPC was primarily targeted at. Chromebooks became fairly big in education but primarily AFAIK in developed countries.

Re:Dead Startup Toys by tinco on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:12PM (#27812572)
If it, and netbooks as a hardware category, failed, it was because in the end they turned out to not have been worth it. I used a netbook happily for about a year or two, it cost ~$400 if I recall correctly, and afterwards I donated it to my sister who I think used it for a while as well.

That's at least $150/yr for a low end product fun but uncomfortable product. After the netbook I upgraded to a Macbook Pro that was $1250, and I used it for 8 years, after which I also donated it to my sister, and she's still happily using it. That's a roughly similar $150/yr, but for a best in class product with great comfort and wide usability.

I wonder if anyone used a OLPC's for more than a year or two.

Re:Dead Startup Toys by ohazi on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:31PM (#27812806)
For "cheap," netbooks as a category have been replaced by your run-of-the-mill entry-level laptop. The cheapest Dell Inspiron starts at ~$300. $400 gets you an Intel i3 or an AMD Ryzen 3, both of which are leagues better than an Atom.

For "small," the category was replaced by Ultrabooks as people realized that it's usually better to have a thin laptop that doesn't force you to compromise on the display or keyboard size.

I remember traveling with a netbook so that I'd have a computer I could use for tickets and reservations, and even for that, the low resolution 8-10" netbook screens were painful. 12-14" Ultrabooks with >= 1080p panels are much more comfortable, and the weight is comparable.

Re:Dead Startup Toys by techrat on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:38PM (#27812897)
To be fair, you're comparing netbooks then what what we have now. At the time, the pokey, sluggish Atom was the best you could get for a lightweight system and longer-than-usual battery. Remember... the common alternative to a netbook then were awkward 1-2 inches thick 'desktop replacement' style monstrosities unless you wanted to pay a LOT of money relative to performance... and netbooks were $300ish versus $1200+ for laptops at the time. I was grateful for my netbook and they really did seem to push portables into becoming better at being... well, portable.
Re:Dead Startup Toys by ghaff on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:53PM (#27813674)
To be fair there were fairly compact/light* laptops at the time from a variety of manufacturers. But the period between, say, 2000 and maybe the late 2000s in particular laptops were becoming common but you had to make serious tradeoffs between price, size/weight, performance, and other features.

* By the standards of the time

Re:Dead Startup Toys by ghaff on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:29PM (#27814016)
I've had both a "subnotebook" (a Fujitsu) and a small Chromebook. The <13" form factor can be nice for travel but, in both cases, I ultimately came to the conclusion that the compromises relative to a 13" form factor that didn't weigh that much more just wasn't worth it.
Re:Dead Startup Toys by thrower123 on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:08PM (#27813240)
The Asus eeePCs were great for the time as a beat-around little on-the-go laptop, when most laptops were still 15 or 17 inches and weighed 5-10 pounds.

I really enjoyed the one I bought in college - it actually fit on those terrible fold-out desks that lecture hall seats have.

Re:Dead Startup Toys by Symbiote on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:24PM (#27812729)
Didn't netbooks as a category just merge into cheaper laptops? I doubt they were unprofitable for the manufacturers.

I'll bet the children in Africa etc with the OLPCs used them for several years. They can't switch to a MacBook.

Re:Dead Startup Toys by chirau on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:49PM (#27813632)
They didn't really do much in Africa eventually, if anything at all.
Re:Dead Startup Toys by McMiniBurger on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:27PM (#27812757)
but not anyone's OK with spending $1250 upfront

if you earn $250 a month in a developing country, $1250 is like 9-month pay (* calculation may be wrong --- gotta sleep?)

Re:Dead Startup Toys by tinco on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:14PM (#27813303)
Sure, but it is just an extreme example of the TCO of the OLPC being comparable to a high end professional grade laptop. It was just a very hard problem to solve, and the technology was not quite there yet.

Definitely not suggesting kids in Africa should just buy macbook pro's, but $100 is also a lot of upfront cost for a product that's actually not that useful and destined for the wastebin within a year or two.

I do hope I'm wrong and it brought some cool technology too some kids far removed from the big cities.

Re:Dead Startup Toys by Nursie on Monday July 12, 2021 @05:02PM (#27815086)
I wouldn’t have wanted to take a MacBook round outback Australia for months.

A netbook, feh, doesn’t matter if it breaks.

Re:Dead Startup Toys by tinco on Monday July 12, 2021 @06:51PM (#27816014)
I think you underestimate the build quality of the Macbook Pro, it is quite literally the best laptop ever created, if they produced them now with modern chips and monitors, developers would buy them by the thousands and possibly macos would still be the developers os of choice. I wouldn't hesitate to bring it to the outback. What do you think would happen to a macbook in Australia?
Re:Dead Startup Toys by ghaff on Monday July 12, 2021 @08:00PM (#27816451)
I assume he's saying that if he needs a minimal laptop, he'd bring something pretty cheap and disposable--as I've done on trips. I've certainly brought a cheap Chromebook on some trips even if I use a MacBook at home.
Re:Dead Startup Toys by ClumsyPilot on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:24PM (#27812722)
"Netbooks as a technology for the most part"

I know people that created books and websites on a netbook, who got though school and business meetings with them. I never seen that for a smartphone.

Re:Dead Startup Toys by crazygringo on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:46PM (#27812997)
People absolutely get through school and business meetings with smartphones.

If you visit a community college or know someone who teaches at one, a surprisingly high percentage of students do their homework and write papers entirely on their phone. It's kind of amazing.

Re:Dead Startup Toys by ClumsyPilot on Monday July 12, 2021 @08:08PM (#27816480)
ergonomically, that sounds like torture to me
Re:Dead Startup Toys by potatolicious on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:54PM (#27813086)
Arguably OLPC's approach has - in hindsight - been discredited, but yeah, it seems overly cruel to lump it in with Juicero or Theranos.

We do have impossibly cheap computers now that are far more accessible, that do nearly all the things normally expected of computers, and with widely available resources for programming on them - RPi, Chromebooks, etc.

The success of those devices relative to OLPC (with of course, the benefit of hindsight) seems to come down to a few major differences in the approach:

- insistence on highly-custom everything, rather than exploiting as much as possible off-the-shelf to keep costs down.

- insistence on targeting the absolute lowest-cost end of the market initially rather than starting at a higher price point and using that as a starting point for iterative cost-reduction.

The latter pitfall one still sees various hardware startups fall into with some regularity. Universal accessibility is a fantastic goal, but often the easiest way to do it is to sell something considerably more expensive first.

Re:Dead Startup Toys by blihp on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:36PM (#27812858)
It did fall short of what they wanted to deliver as a device probably because it was far too ambitious... but they accomplished quite a bit due to that ambition. Consider that it was conceived of in a time before inexpensive laptops were available. In 2005, a low-end laptop still cost well over $1000. Things like a Chromebook, netbook, Raspberry Pi etc. didn't exist yet. If anything, the OLPC probably got companies thinking sooner and more seriously about the low cost portable computing space than they would have otherwise.
Re:Dead Startup Toys by dwheeler on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:24PM (#27813401)
I agree. OLPC wasn't a failure in the same sense as the others. They created laptops, they got used, and a lot of people did learn a lot. It didn't succeed to the level they hoped, but that's true for almost all projects. It's easier to be critical in retrospect. OLPC did succeed in making the world a better place, and that's to be commended.
Re:Dead Startup Toys by gre on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:20PM (#27812678)
The trackpad had terrible bugs that pinned the cursor to the side of the screen. That's as far as I got using it. I'm sad that some kid probably ended up with one on account of me.
Re:Dead Startup Toys by cavalierfrix on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:03PM (#27813199)
I was given an OLPC laptop as a gift, and learned that their CMOS battery (If I remember correctly) was hardwired, and when the battery died the laptop was useless. I sent my OLPC to someone on a forum who claimed to fix them, along with a fee, and never heard back. The only time I’ve been screwed by someone on a niche forum like that.

Still, it was a fun thing to play with. The form factor was like a durable OG iBook, and it worked well for basic tasks.

Re:Dead Startup Toys by duskwuff on Monday July 12, 2021 @10:00PM (#27817004)
A key element of the project was their custom Sugar Linux desktop environment which would have wireless collaboration and data sharing as a central feature, and a suite of custom educational software to run in that environment. The OLPC Foundation never fully delivered on that promise -- the software they shipped was buggy and incomplete, with few applications available and many of the promised features stubbed out or completely absent. The only real saving grace was that their desktop environment included wrappers for Firefox and OpenOffice, and that was enough to make the systems useful to students.

The OLPC Foundation went on to create a series of increasingly ridiculous design renders of future projects -- dual-screen laptops, tablets with solar cells on the back, ultra-thin tablets... none of these were manufactured. Most of them weren't even technologically feasible!

The OLPC project did jump-start interest in ultralight laptops, though, and probably led to the development of early netbooks like the Eee PC. So there's that.

Re:Dead Startup Toys by Camillo on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:28PM (#27813445)
OLPC straddles the line between startup and social program. Given that it wasn't actively harmful [citation needed], it actually managed to produce the laptops, and they had some non-zero if modest utility, we'd have to place it in the upper ranks of the latter category. Even if it had zero impact, that would merely place it in the modal group [0], nothing to be ashamed of!

[0]: see the Iron Law of Evaluation.

Re:Dead Startup Toys by seumars on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:43PM (#27812956)
Chromebooks simply took over the netbook market which was already established by the time OLPC got some publicity. I think OLPC failed because it became more about proving that tech and "bold ideas" from silicon valley could change the world, instead of seriously addressing issues in the third world – it reminds me of the PlayPump.

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2010/07/01/the-playpump-wh...

Re:Dead Startup Toys by ghaff on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:13PM (#27813863)
OLPC wasn't "silicon valley." It came out of the MIT Media Lab.
Re:Dead Startup Toys by jasondigitized on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:18PM (#27812660)
Agreed. This site is laden with cynicism.
Re:Dead Startup Toys by herbst on Tuesday July 13, 2021 @06:54AM (#27819541)
I've had a 200$ eeepc long before that. Not sure if they actually changed the market in any way
Re:Dead Startup Toys by agloeregrets on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:52PM (#27813068)
Might I add...don't buy this. Why? Because you can literally buy an ACTUAL OLPC for $20 more.
Re:Dead Startup Toys by ChrisArchitect on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:23PM (#27813386)
right, didn't really 'fail' as a 'startup' - it just took a very long time to develop and tech continued to move/struggles to be independent and stable with manufacturer messes and giant competing companies, various interests slowing things down all while user needs changed rapidly and capabilities of platforms increased. This was really a long time ago early 00s things were very different and nowhere near mobile device era and so at the time was very noble and promising.

I didn't need to hear Justin Kan talking stupid claiming it missed the mark because of phones in that video about the toys ignoring the timeline/history, it was years before that which is a lot considering how fast things changed

Re:Dead Startup Toys by fnord77 on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:38PM (#27812890)
One Thousand Laptops per Warlord
Re:Dead Startup Toys by legitster on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:39PM (#27812905)
Even 8+ years ago, OLPC was taught as a case study in business school. It was a largely failed project.

It's a pretty classic example of a CEO who was very capable at establishing business partnerships but had such a rigid view about the problem they were trying to solve. They never really proved that the 1:1 concept actually had merit, but ended up being so invested in quantity over quality.

In developing countries, the computers were too simple to teach effective computer skills. And in undeveloped countries, the laptops did nothing to address actual education problems.

Chromebooks have the benefit years of Chrome apps being developed to solve actual problems. They also give up a lot of the goofy ideas like hand crank recharging or mesh networking and etc.