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Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by techrat on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:16PM (#27726147)
What's not to get?

https://i.imgur.com/8xlOIW9.png

The whole point of defunding the police is to get the funding back to where it belongs.

https://citymonitor.ai/government/the-reality-of-us-city-bud... - The reality of US city budgets: Police funding eclipses most other agencies’

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by khazhoux on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:22PM (#27726191)
That cartoon unintentionally proves the point of those who oppose Defund: The author either intentionally or accidentally discards the stones marked "Theft", "Gang Violence", and "Domestic Violence." Who should response to a gang shooting, a theft, or someone in the middle of beating up their spouse/partner, if not the police?
Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by ceejayoz on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:23PM (#27726199)
Those things are, to at least some extent, caused by the things the artist is advocating doing a better job of fixing.

The whole point of the cartoon is that tackling the underlying causes of such issues might make them easier to fix.

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by throwaway316943 on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:58PM (#27726455)
I agree that addressing underlying causes would reduce those problems but it would take decades even if we went all in on fixing those things. What exactly do we do about them in the mean time?
Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by ceejayoz on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:59PM (#27726462)
Well, that's why the slogan's not "defund the police immediately", I guess.

That it'd take a while to make significant progress isn't a reason not to start.

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by throwaway316943 on Saturday July 03, 2021 @09:18PM (#27726554)
Many people seem to take it to mean that. It even seems like some are trying to implement it that way. Catchy slogans tend to result in shitty implementations.
Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by ceejayoz on Saturday July 03, 2021 @09:41PM (#27726653)
> Many people seem to take it to mean that.

Sure, just like no one actually knows what "critical race theory" actually means. A concerted effort to encourage these misunderstandings hardly helps.

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by BuyMyBitcoins on Monday July 05, 2021 @12:20AM (#27734597)
“Defund the police” is a horrible slogan, no matter how accurately or inaccurately someone describes it. If you need to write a paragraph or two explaining what your slogan actually means, then you need to abandon it.
Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by Justin_K on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:19PM (#27726168)
There has already been extensive spending in these areas and what do we have to show for it?

EDIT: While there's many factors that drive crime, crime was lower before the defund movements.

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by techrat on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:27PM (#27726228)
Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by ceejayoz on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:21PM (#27726189)
Does this logic apply to policing, too?

> crime was lower before the defund movements

Remind me, did anything else happen in 2020 that might have had an impact on crime?

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by decremental on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:30PM (#27726249)
Good point. The rioting encouraged by politicians and the media happened in 2020.
Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by ceejayoz on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:32PM (#27726267)
Anything else happen that year?
Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by slipframe on Saturday July 03, 2021 @10:14PM (#27726784)
Instead of being passive aggressive with this psuedo-scoratic bullshit, why don't you just say outright what you mean? You're talking about covid.

A global pandemic is a shitty excuse for these hyper-local phenomena. It's not covid; it's the voting public of San Francisco (and two or three other west coast cities) and the disastrous politicians they elect.

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by ceejayoz on Saturday July 03, 2021 @10:48PM (#27726880)
The crime spike @Justin_K alluded to was national, not hyper-local.

https://www.vox.com/22344713/murder-violent-crime-spike-surg...

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by wyager on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:29PM (#27726243)
A basehead is robbing the CVS again? Quick, send a social worker!
Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by astrange on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:32PM (#27726266)
These comics (and the ones suggesting "defunding police" will lead to school funding) are essentially a trick because 1. reducing police funding won't lead to money going to those other places 2. half those things are done under the police department 3. the other half are much more expensive than police funding.

Affordable housing is a notable case of the last one, it's very very expensive to build in SF and nobody actually wants it. The reason people dislike "luxury housing" is that it actually exists, so they want "affordable housing" because they know it won't happen. When it actually shows up, they oppose it too.

It does demonstrate that anything presented in cartoon form is probably false, because the people drawing cartoons are not specialists in whatever the topic is. Basically Gell-Mann Amnesia.

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by techrat on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:45PM (#27726374)
> These comics (and the ones suggesting "defunding police" will lead to school funding) are essentially a trick because 1. reducing police funding won't lead to money going to those other places 2. half those things are done under the police department 3. the other half are much more expensive than police funding.

Evidence does not support your claims.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/19/alexandria-k...

Social workers, in conjunction with police, have resulted in a drop of repeat calls and cost less than hiring another officer.

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by astrange on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:49PM (#27726402)
This is "half those things are done under the police department". Defunding the police department would prevent this.

If you want to hire social workers, which is a good idea, say that instead.

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by ceejayoz on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:54PM (#27726431)
You should look in to the defund proposals, then, because that's what they're typically advocating; moving these responsibilities (and their funding) out of the police department.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police

> "Defund the police" is a slogan that supports divesting funds from police departments and reallocating them to non-policing forms of public safety and community support, such as social services, youth services, housing, education, healthcare and other community resources.

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by astrange on Saturday July 03, 2021 @09:02PM (#27726480)
I have, which is why I already responded to this with "reducing police funding won't lead to money going to those other places".

"Education" is a trick because the same taxes don't fund police (cities) and education (school districts). Making one go down wouldn't cause the other to go up, or even increase voter support for it.

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by ceejayoz on Saturday July 03, 2021 @09:05PM (#27726489)
Can you clarify: Are you asserting it's literally impossible, along the lines of being actively unconstitutional or impossible in some fashion, or that "well voters won't want to"?
Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by astrange on Saturday July 03, 2021 @09:11PM (#27726519)
Some things, like housing, are so expensive that canceling other projects wouldn't actually get them done. The solution is to find ways to make them cheaper.

Other things, like education, are actually unrelated because they're literally different tax districts (eg property vs sales tax) applied to different people. In that case you can't vote on defund + fund at the same time. But also, some people just don't like taxes, so if you put the defund one first they'll take it but not use it to fund anything new.

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by ceejayoz on Saturday July 03, 2021 @09:12PM (#27726523)
It turns out housing isn't actually that expensive to provide (SF's unusual housing market aside, for a moment), and solves an enormous number of these problems on its own. https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chroni...
Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by astrange on Saturday July 03, 2021 @09:16PM (#27726544)
Yes, I agree. Putting homeless people in houses is the most effective thing you can do for them. (sometimes this means forcing them, unfortunately, but it works)

And many people think homeless people ended up there by doing too many drugs or other moral failures, but it's more like being homeless is really bad for your mental health and there's nothing else to do.

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by sumedh on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @01:05AM (#27744414)
> The whole point of defunding the police is to get the funding back to where it belongs.

Then Reform the Police would have been a better marketing slogan compared to Defund the police.

Re:70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has de... by ipaddr on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:30PM (#27726250)
Tax cuts so citizens can hire private security?