Unless you are a visiting foreigner without cell phone service and the WiFi requires you to login with a working cell phone number, then you are in 没办法 territory.

Somehow I think that a visiting foreigner that can read Chinese to order off a paper menu is probably also going to have a working phone number in China. Someone that can't read Chinese and needs to use their phone for google translate is probably not going to be able to order off a paper menu either.

You’d be surprised how many overseas Chinese (who have immigrated to somewhere else) who are visiting China are trapped by this. And even foreigners who don’t read Chinese can pick out certain characters of the food they like to eat (you don’t need to read Chinese very well to recognize stereotypical 宫保鸡丁).

China is really bad at exceptions. Many of those restaurants have gotten rid of their paper menus (which didn’t have English anyways, so they aren’t worried about foreigners). It’s like the train station kiosks that can’t deal with you if you don’t have a Chinese ID card.

Yes, it is helpful to have cell service, both in China and in the United States.

You can get by without cell phone service in the USA. On all my business trips back to the USA while living in China, I didn't have much a problem (free open wifi is pretty common, you can even use Uber pretty easily without a phone number).

In China...if someone else can get you a SIM, you'll be OK, or maybe you can get one at the airport in customs (that used to be possible), though they have been cracking down on SIMs without ID numbers or resident visas associated with them.

> they have been cracking down on SIMs without ID numbers or resident visas associated with them.

?? I use Google Fi which has agreements with providers in almost every country, I had data as soon as I walked off the plane in China. Alipay was almost as easy to set up, although I understand that until recently it was limited to those with a Chinese bank account.

> I use Google Fi which gives has agreements with providers in almost every country, I had data as soon as I walked off the plane in China

That sounds really nice...and a bit surprising considering nothing else Google works in China without a VPN.

So...does it also work as a normal phone with a Chinese number so you can logon to wifi at Starbucks in China?

> a bit surprising considering nothing else Google works in China without a VPN.

It is a bit surprising, although Google does have offices in China. It also has a VPN built in, which I recall would intermittently bypass the GFW.

> So...does it also work as a normal phone with a Chinese number so you can logon to wifi at Starbucks in China?

No, I don't think so, but I had unlimited data.

Were you in Guangzhou by any chance? They weird connections for foreigners that bypass the firewall, things that don’t exist in Beijing or Shanghai.

No, I was in Beijing, Kunming, and Shanghai. But I honestly don't recall the specifics of the firewall bypass - I was using Outline (another Google sponsored project, funnily enough) to skip it most of the time anyways.

As an overseas Chinese visiting China, the cashier always look at me weirdly when I told them (in Chinese) I don't have online wallet/mobile internet. They think I'm taking them for a laugh.

If only we could upload the food more efficiently. Then we wouldn't need restaurants at all.

every restaurant and bar I've been to in Brooklyn in the last week now also has the menu, ordering, and payment entirely through the QR codes. most using the Toast platform. I don't see this trend going back the other way.

Same experience scattered across US as well, aside from compulsory tipping and added sympathy for service industry working - different conversation

but I do love paying with Apple Pay, I always hated how wait staff doesn't carry around Point of Sale systems in the US and that it takes multiple steps to 1) wait to get their attention again to get the bill 2) wait to get their attention again to pay for the bill 3) wait for them to return with your payment method and hope they don't get sidetracked. Now its down to just 1) in places with QR codes on receipts.

It would be lovely if we could move closer to the Chinese consumer model re: QR codes in general. Wechat pay/Alipay are incredibly convenient.

I find paying via QR code to be much less convenient than NFC that is more popular in the west. Tap and pay is really quick, especially in countries like Australia.

Hm, maybe.

But can they afford to have an NFC reader at every single table?

Can street vendors without access to electricity/mobile connection just hold up a QR code cut into some wood and you can pay that way?

NFC seems to put the onus on the vendor, Wechat pay/Alipay has no such problem.

It's definitely not quick in the US, where it hasn't been really adopted at the same level, it might be fast in Australia.

Different culture. You pay at one place, no or few street vendors, modern convenience stores abound.

I've seen and used NFC pads attached to cellphones using Square adapters, so you can go that route if you want.

NFC is definitely much faster in Australia than in the USA.

With "App Clips" or "Instant Apps" or whatever you want to call them QR codes for me take the lead again. Get a receipt at the table, open camera, scan, app pops up with receipt, add tip, click click pay, done.

Skipping the second waiter trip to swipe all the cards or the awkwardness of bringing out the PoS system to the table is immediately worth it to me.

Ya, I get that. Red Robin has screens/computers/payment kiosks at each table to avoid that problem. They won't use QR codes at sit down restaurants in the states for payments because of tipping, however. Psychologically, you are more likely to tip more if the waiter is directly involved in the billing.

Unlocking your phone, opening an app, possibly unlocking that one, tapping to scan, and then accept is NOT more convenient than NFC in your card. Unless your talking about costs.

For private free money transfer, the US and many other places have similar if not better methods.

Or NFC in your phone. I can't imagine it being more convenient than that.

The problem is that you have to have an NFC reader that they bring to you or that is at every table (if you are, say, in a restaurant).

By contrast, QR codes are cheap to manufacture, so you can put it on every table and anyone anywhere can pay without having to go to the counter or whatever.

Plus, NFC doesn't work over distance. Nor is it bidirectional.

I think there is something about QR that helps it gain critical mass over NFC, I have not seen anywhere penetrated as heavily by NFC as the QR codes are in China. Alipay QR codes are showing up in DC & SF too now.

I'm curious if those commenting have been to China/used the QR code system, I was likewise very skeptical before visiting.

NFC on my watch is in fact more convenient than NFC on my phone.

The difference is slight, but real.

You have to use watch then, and having something on my hand is not convenient (or, maybe, pleasant) for me.

Is there a good smart watch that's not an iWatch?

If NFC isn't common in your area and you really want to do watch payments, you can do Samsung Pay on any terminal with a magstrip reader, which is all of them.

Google dropped the ball on wearable tech. Apples slow but steady increase of features has made it hard for competitors to catch up.

Not yet.

How is NFC on a phone more convenient than tapping a card?

The phone would be already out whereas the card is more likely in a wallet. The phone is probably faster than getting the card.

Okay so if your phone is your hand already and ready to be used, then it's "more convenient" (i.e. saves maybe 2 seconds) than your card, but then in all other cases it's not? I usually keep my phone in my pocket so this isn't more convenient anyway.

Personally I find any hard requirement of a phone extremely _inconvenient_, since it means I must have my phone with me. A card/cash takes up much less space than a phone.

On the other hand, here in the UK I know several people who no longer carry a wallet or cards at all because Apple Pay is so ubiquitously available. I don’t know anyone without a phone.

I do have a phone and usually have it with me, but I don't always have it with me. I think having more payment options is great. Cash, cards, phones, you name it. The variety of options is true convenience. But I don't see how someone can say a phone is more convenient than cash/card for payment. Sure if you already have it with you (an argument which is symmetric anyway), but cash/cards use up less space and...well make payments.

I think the 2 are similar enough that are a bit subjective. For me it’s easier to pull out my card holder and slide out my card than trying to unlock my phone several times in a row. It doesn’t help that some places don’t know how to use NFC so the card works 100% of the time for me.

If I lived in a post-facemask NFC-aware country I’d totally use Apple Pay

It depends. For who smartphone addict and whom cards are in a wallet in a bag, launching barcode payment is faster than taking a card. Maybe NFC on smartphone is faster.

Indeed on NFC on my phone would be faster if I didn’t have to unlock it with a PIN code due to Face ID and my mask. I miss Touch ID-based Apple Pay.

my wallet is physically adhered to my phone, so consider slimming down as well

I still like not having to wait for the wait staff and just paying with QR code

>so a non high-end place with good food will typically have rushed and curt wait staff. Ordering through the phone will give you a better experience!

Not sure why that’s something we want to encourage.

Talk about low value comments.

Why not?

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s not actually better for some people and some situations.

This is obviously a decent use case for QR code’s; your comments seem just like you don’t like it, and you’re not interested in even considering any other option.

I’m assuming that the GP is an American used to American standards of being waited on (where the staff are incentivized by tips and thus have to impress their customers), and so does not want ”rushed and curt” service to be encouraged (which would diminish their experience), rather than them having an aversion to QR codes per se.

Because encouraging people to be rude to each other is distasteful, I thought it was obvious.

Similarly, calling someone a “low value comment” and then taking the least charitable view of their comment is directly against hn community guidelines.

Also because WeChat scans QR codes very fast, and you have to only hit 1 tap to do the whole thing. Once WeChat sees a QR it opens the link immediately and automatically.

The ordering also makes it more useful. Most restaurants in US just have a horrible HTML 1.0 menu with no ordering system, no pictures, and sometimes even goddamn frames.

With default Android it's like Home -> swipe -> camera -> 模式 -> 智慧鏡頭 and then point at the QR code while trying to tap the link that pops up as a tiny tooltip on the screen at the same time without making it go out of focus at the same time. It's awful.

I don't have stock Android on my phone so this may be a feature my manufacturer has added, but I'm pretty sure you can press the shutter button instead of clicking on the popup to open the QR code.

Also, as others have pointed out, with Firefox you can scan and open a QR core in two taps, so no need to go to the camera app at all.