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Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by zenincognito on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:11AM (#27628583)
Thats a gross generalisation. One would think, that average HNer would be a coiner because of their background.
Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by Danieru on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:21AM (#27628653)
Nope, lots of people here are just like me: proud salty nocoiners.

We poor old salty nocoiners can only wipe our flowing tears with the 100$ rags from our fat wallets. Oh poor us, we foolishly put our wealth into cashflow producing assets. Oh the sorrow every quarter as the dividends are deposited in our flash-loan-hack-proof bank accounts.

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by NicoJuicy on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:37AM (#27628754)
That's not completely true. I left it at ~18 k. A couple of years ago as i didn't saw a path to become profitable. I suppose a lot of HN'ers joined early on and left by now.

My stocks are doing good enough for me to not care at all about crypto since then. Even if that wouldn't be the case, I wouldn't invest in something that I don't think has a viable path.

Eg. The current solutions are using off-chain centralized transactions to fix core things ( eg. transaction fee).

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by Tenoke on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:33AM (#27628721)
Thats a weird thing to brag about - if talking about past returns there's few 'cash flow producing assets' that'd have done as well as just putting the money in btc.

Also flash loans don't take anything out of your wallet/account either and I know of people whose bank accounts have been hacked.

There's plenty to complain about btc but you've somehow chosen the least convincing argument for why you are a noncoiner.

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by NicoJuicy on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:42AM (#27628786)
Victims of bank fraud mostly receive their money back by the bank.

This one recent example of an crypto exchange that fled with the money, has defrauded more in value than the entire ACH payment system worth ~51T ( fraud = 0,0008 % = 0,08 basis points).

https://www.engadget.com/africrypt-bitcoin-disappearance-174... https://silamoney.com/ach/understanding-the-basics-of-ach-fr...

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by Tenoke on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:48AM (#27628824)
That's not a hack that's a scam.
Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by NicoJuicy on Friday June 25, 2021 @10:26AM (#27631162)
Both are labeled as fraud.
Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by Clewza313 on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:37AM (#27628751)
Bitcoins do not produce any cash flow, the only way to profit is to sell them to a greater fool.
Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by Tenoke on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:40AM (#27628777)
There's plenty of crypto (including e.g. ETH) that does so via staking but that wasn't the point anyway.
Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by Clewza313 on Friday June 25, 2021 @06:03AM (#27628888)
No, this was the GP's point. Many of those "salty nocoiners" are invested in assets that produce reliable cash flow, which is considerably safer than holding a purely speculative asset like crypto.
Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by lowkey on Friday June 25, 2021 @11:25PM (#27638791)
It may be a gross generalization but based on the majority of comments on HN, it is unfortunately an accurate one.

Not only are the comments salty, they are generally ill-informed.

See Dang’s recent call to HN for more insightful comments and less vitriol for example.

It hurts me to say this about HN because on other topics comments are often deeply insightful but when it comes to Bitcoin (and other cryptos) HN comments are often ignorant and dismissive.

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by celticninja on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:26AM (#27628683)
What happens is that many on HN were around in 2009-2011 when it first appeared and was cheap. Everyone who didn't buy in then has a vested interest in it failing because then they feel like they didn't miss out and that their decision not to get involved was validated.

It is becoming apparent as time goes by that there are very many of them here. I seem to have attracted some that downvote every comment I make.

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by southerntofu on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:46AM (#27628809)
I owned Bitcoin back in 2012-2014 when i thought it was going to be an actual currency to exchange goods and services. Since then, it has become a tool for speculation and an ecological disaster, both of which are strongly opposed to my ethos.

I now own precisely 0€ worth of Bitcoin and strongly recommend all my friends never to fall into that kind of trap. Because capitalism and speculation ruins lives, whether you trade stocks or magic BTC numbers.

I'm not alone: https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/26/Cryptocurrency-is-a-disas...

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by celticninja on Friday June 25, 2021 @09:00AM (#27630195)
I have had a chance to read the article now. I still have some BTC and I have made money from it. I am not looking to make any money back, I can never make a loss. Same for all the people I advised to get into it in 2011/2013.

I am also fortunate and with enough self-awareness to understand that the economy that I operate in is not the same for everyone all over the world. I understand what being un-banked means, I understand the extra costs that come with being poor. I understand that remittances from developed nation to developing nation are a lifeline for many many families. I understand that the traditional ways of sending money to these destinations involve fees as high as 20% or more and doesnt always include the ability to immediately access those funds at the other end. I know that there are unscrupulous Western Union branches/employees that will charge further fees at the receiving end. So whilst it is nice to have a high horse to sit upon, perhaps you could use that perspective to understand that not everyone is in the same position as you. Where you see waste someone else sees financial access, where you see speculation others see utility.

You don't plan for the future because you forsee the downfall of society, so through choice you elect not to plan. Others don't plan for the future because they cant plan further than a week or 2 weeks ahead because the subsist and survive on a day to day basis.

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by celticninja on Friday June 25, 2021 @06:08AM (#27628915)
Are you in the US? If so do you have a 401k for retirement? That is capitalism and speculation and trading stocks. If you don't what is your retirement plan?

I am not a huge fan of capitalism, but here I am living in a world where it exists and I have to survive in it, it's. It going to change before I retire so I need to invest in the stock market via a retirement/pension fund. Of course I could choose not to do that but the only cost there is a negative one for me, it won't change the system.

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by southerntofu on Friday June 25, 2021 @06:27AM (#27628998)
> what is your retirement plan?

I don't exactly have one, because i'm also from the global north (france). I'm betting that before i get to "retire" (i'm not a employee so there's not really a such thing for me) either climate change will collapse the capitalist economy (let's enjoy clear water before industry has used it all) or government will have turned fully fascist and put the rest of us (anarchists, muslims, homosexuals/trans*) in concentration camp...

> it won't change the system

Do what you need to do. But keep in mind together we're strong enough to change it. Changing the system (which can only happen through a global revolution) is the only thing that matters to give new generations a chance to live a better life than the shitty one we had... and to escape all dystopian scenarios that are slowly coming to life.

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by celticninja on Friday June 25, 2021 @11:06AM (#27631704)
Bring me another option and I'm there in the revolution with you friend. Sitting idly by is not my thing at all, bitcoin was a start to upsetting the existing system but it was never going to do it on its own.

So sign me up for the revolution mailing list but let's get some content.

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by celticninja on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:57AM (#27628860)
>capitalism and speculation ruin lives

And yet here you are on hackernews, owned and run by ycombinator, an organisation that exists to capitalise on both of these things, with the aim of making a small group of investors and founders very very rich.

https://www.ycombinator.com/topcompanies/

Are you aware of the cognitive dissonance in your position?

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by celticninja on Friday June 25, 2021 @06:00AM (#27628876)
For reference I also got involved in a similar period and used it successfully to transact business with people in foreign countries at a much lower cost than via bank transactions.

Yes bitcoin has pivoted now to a store of wealth or even a cheap way to move large sums and it is less efficient for smaller transactions, but lightning network solves this problem sufficiently.

Again pivoting is not something unique to bitcoin and many tech firms have pivoted to find their niche. Being able to react and respond is a feature not a bug.

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by SideburnsOfDoom on Friday June 25, 2021 @09:38AM (#27630606)
Are you literally trying to be this guy as some kind of parody?

https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by celticninja on Friday June 25, 2021 @11:04AM (#27631677)
No, I am having a discussion with someone and trying to understand someone else's position on something on which we are opposed. Is that wrong? Or are you just anti-bitcoin/cryptocurrencies and have come to argue with me and are picking up something without bothering to read the whole context of the comment chain?
Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by southerntofu on Friday June 25, 2021 @06:00AM (#27628874)
> Are you aware of the cognitive dissonance in your position?

I am more than aware of my position and my surroundings. But i don't feel any dissonance, though i do feel a lot of ethical/ideological conflict in these forums (which i'm happy to take part in on occasion).

Re:El Salvador to airdrop $30 in Bitcoin to up to 6M citizens by chinathrow on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:17AM (#27628619)
Why would I be a coiner? Bitcoin is still wasteful as fuck.