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Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by WalterBright on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:01PM (#27625493)
> cloud backups are likely going to be more reliable

I've seen enough HackerNews articles:

1. My account got deleted and I can't find a human to talk to and all my pictures going back 20 years are gone!

2. A hacker guessed my password and deleted my online presence! It's all gone!

3. My storage provider went bust and all my stuff is gone!

Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by exporectomy on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:51PM (#27625858)
I think you've fallen into the trap of being scared by the news. Normal hard drive failures don't make it to HN because they're so boring and common. You even had one yourself. That's how unreliable maintaining your own backup device is.

This very story is just that - people had their own hard drive and it wasn't maintained for security so it got erased. At least this article needs to be added to your mental list of failures of local storage to balance your news-driven bias.

Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by freshpots on Saturday June 26, 2021 @10:05AM (#27641955)
"At least this article needs to be added to your mental list of failures of local storage to balance your news-driven bias." What a toxic comment. You are saying far more about yourself than you are of someone you don't know at all. Projection and a lot of anger/hate inside.
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by exporectomy on Saturday June 26, 2021 @06:12PM (#27646415)
> You are saying far more about yourself [...] a lot of anger/hate inside.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by freshpots on Thursday July 01, 2021 @11:25AM (#27700079)
Then why be wrong/unhelpful/provocative?
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by majormajor on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:05PM (#27625528)
If my cloud backup backend provider cancels my account, my backup software will quickly complain. There will be a window of exposure, but I can act quickly.

If my backup harddrive is in the same house as my main storage and my house burns down, I'm fucked.

If I'm fancy, I may have multiple backend storage providers, too. Lot easier to do that then to have multiple houses. I wanted to use a safe deposit box in the past, but last time I called banks near me, they didn't even have safe deposit boxes available to rent! I can ask some friends, but then will be limited in frequency of updates, still.

Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by bigiain on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:28PM (#27626535)
"Redundant Array of Inexpensive Cloud Storage Providers is not a backup!!!" <grin>

(Can we make RAICSP a thing? Or do multi-cloud solution vendors already has a snappy marketing term for storing everything on all of S3, Azure Blob, and Google Storage at once?)

Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by monsieurbanana on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:16AM (#27627101)
It's not? Why?
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by Spivak on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:42AM (#27627222)
Yeah, I’m falling on this too. A client with write-only privs to a buckets on multiple cloud storage providers is literally the most durable backup in human existence right now. Like nothing else will get you worldwide DR and 30+ 9’s of durability.
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by sokoloff on Friday June 25, 2021 @04:50AM (#27628466)
3 (designed for) 10 9’s systems whose failure modes are wholly independent might be 30 9s.

I strongly suspect (as in “for the right price would stake my life on it”) that there are some common failure modes across the major cloud vendors’ offerings.

Your advice is directionally sound (and is what I do for family docs and photos); I just think it has fewer meaningless 9s than you’re imagining.

Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by Sebb767 on Friday June 25, 2021 @07:23AM (#27629357)
It's probably not a bad idea, but if they're all linked to a single e-mail account/provider, things might turn sour quickly.
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by bigiain on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:41AM (#27627803)
Sorry, just riffing on the “RAID is not a backup” that gets yelled at everybody who ever did an rm -rf on their raid by accident…
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by _carbyau_ on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:57PM (#27625902)
I haven't yet implemented it but perhaps a reciprocal syncthing arrangement with an IT knowledgeable friend?
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by dunham on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:52PM (#27626657)
I didn't think syncthing supported encrypted replicas - that's why I passed on it years ago for a dropbox-like use case. I wanted to have a replica in the cloud as a relay, without having to fully trust the machine. A quick google suggests they may have something beta along these lines, so this may change.

I believe Resilio can do it, but it is closed source.

If you're looking for backups and not dropbox-like functionality, then something like restic might be more appropriate. It does actual content addressed backups, so you've got history for those times when you realized you messed something up six backups ago.

Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by pcnix on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:49AM (#27627533)
Syncthing now supports untrusted encrypted nodes, and it's fairly reliable.
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by rswail on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:44AM (#27628800)
Companies like Iron Mountain provide this service to businesses. Even if a bank no longer offers safe deposit boxes (and you were relying on their "safe", which for small banks was an arbitrary thing), there are usually facilities in larger cities that offer the same sort of service.

Just went through this with my family (in Australia) when the local bank branch said they were shutting down the service. It was basically a locked room in their branch, there was no "safe" involved.

Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by bigiain on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:17PM (#27626469)
Backblaze's latest drive report shows an annual failure rate for hard drives of 0.85%. I very strongly suspect the total of all failures of the type you're listing there is many orders of magnitude lower than that across all cloud storage users.

If you care about your backups, a single cloud vendor/account vanishing isn't going to be a problem, in exactly the same way that if you care about your backups,m a single drive failure will not be a problem. They are both predictable and mitigable risks.

Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by xvector on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:27AM (#27627151)
> in exactly the same way that if you care about your backups, a single drive failure will not be a problem

0.85% is extremely high. I've rolled enough 1s on d100s to know that I wouldn't take those odds!

Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by bigiain on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:55AM (#27627554)
Yeah, but it certainly feels in the right ballpark from my personal experience. I’ve normally got 20 or so drives in use at any time (perhaps fewer spinning rust drives not that ssds are more common), and I have a drive go bad occasionally - not every year or two, but certainly every 5 years. So I reckon they’re at least order of magnitude right.
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by SilverRed on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:09AM (#27627642)
I have found that filesystem corruption or accidental deletion is far more common than physical drive failure.
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by 2muchcoffeeman on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:21PM (#27625635)
Well I guess you should have both. That’s the point point right? Redundancy?
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by TaylorAlexander on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:07PM (#27625541)
There’s “cloud backup” and there’s “storing everything primarily in one cloud provider”.
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by asteroidbelt on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:19PM (#27626483)
> I can't find a human to talk to and

Obviously customer support is a finite resource.

That's why companies need to start paid/premium customer support: when you lost access to your account, you should be able to pay 10, 100, 1000 of money to talk to a real person who understand how the system works and where there a mistake was made.

Like a hacker stole your account and you cannot take it back? A special person will to do a background check (e.g. call your employer) to verify that you is actually you.

Robot erroneously blocked your account because of misclassified spam-like activity? Your account is restored, and you are fully refunded.

Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by Scoundreller on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:09PM (#27625556)
And:

4. My crypto exchange disappeared/went bankrupt/was a scam and now my crypto is all gone.

I swear, some people never learn.

Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by seoaeu on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:25PM (#27626514)
Don't be silly! That could never happen to my crypto exchange
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by bigiain on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:30PM (#27626547)
Of course not! And they're _totally_ 1:1 fully backed with USD!
Re:WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted by voldacar on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:25AM (#27627409)
not your keys, not your coins. no exceptions.