News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by BitwiseFool on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:32AM (#27503816)
What is the deal with the governments of the British Isles being so intrusive and privacy hostile? I'm always hearing about new laws that intrude on personal privacy while also establishing an extensive surveillance capability. What is it about the cultures of that place that make the people so accepting of such government overreach?
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by prepend on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:04PM (#27504268)
I’ve wondered the same thing but chalked it up to some sort of selection bias.

I always remember Pink Floyd’s Another Brick in the Wall Part 2 [0] and the story of how authoritarian British schools were. I guess there some sort of contingent for making lots of rules and demanding adherence.

There’s a pretty great book called Albion’s Seed [1] by Fischer that goes into the four groups of British people that founded America. The “border” peoples of Scotland/north England were pretty anarchistic and moved to the colonies fleeing British rule. And I think there was quite a bit of rule that resulted in the people who don’t follow rules leaving Britain for the US/Australia/other colonies. So after a few hundred years, that perhaps had an effect on the type of people who stayed.

[0] https://youtu.be/HrxX9TBj2zY

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion%27s_Seed

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by astrange on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:34PM (#27510988)
> The “border” peoples of Scotland/north England were pretty anarchistic and moved to the colonies fleeing British rule.

And they ended up in Appalachia because even the other colonies couldn't stand them and kicked them out.

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by reedjosh on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:49AM (#27504053)
I can't really speak for them, but I keep seeing this in the US too. Individuals just don't seem to have any real recourse. These laws and systems are kafkaesque--there's just some system out there that determines the rules, and good luck finding a functioning way to push back.

Also, here's one of my favorite fairly relevant quotes:

> "We operate under the rule of law and are accountable for it. In some countries secret intelligence is used to control their people. In ours, it only exists to protect their freedoms."

- William Hague (UK Politician)

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-23053691

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by BitwiseFool on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:04PM (#27504270)
Maybe this is just my inner American, but what the Irish government is doing is tyrannical. The idea that you must render your secrets to the government just seems anathema to personal liberty. This must run afoul of some human rights commitments the UK has made, no? And, the doublespeak of the quote you mentioned is absolutely repugnant.

Edit: I wrote UK government... I was mistaken and thought of Northern Ireland instead of the Republic of Ireland.

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by reedjosh on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:36PM (#27504714)
It really isn't just the UK (or Ireland) though. Governments everywhere are slowly closing in on privacy and freedom.

Unelected global institutions are rising, and their vision of the future is not promising.

https://mises.org/wire/no-privacy-no-property-world-2030-acc...

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by rand49an on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:12PM (#27504372)
While I'm sure UK police are after the same powers (or already have them!) Ireland isn't a part of the UK.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by BitwiseFool on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:24PM (#27504565)
My apologies, for some reason my mind went to 'Northern Ireland' as I've come to expect this sort of thing from the UK.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by HeckFeck on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:31PM (#27504656)
Easily done. The ROI aren't as different from the the UK as they like to think.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by rusk on Monday June 14, 2021 @03:46PM (#27507355)
England is a very different kind of place to most places I think you’ll find!
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by bitdivision on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:01PM (#27505068)
The UK does indeed already have similar powers under RIPA [0].

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_Investigatory_Po...

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by Sebb767 on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:12PM (#27505194)
The US is not much better. Germany [0] is not much better. This seems to be a general trend right now.

If I had to guess, police has a hard time accessing anything on smartphones and PCs - which probably is a major holdback for them - and hardly anybody involved in the making of the legislature has enough technical understanding and/or political stake to defend the privacy side of things.

[0] https://www.heise.de/news/Cyberbunker-Klausel-in-StPO-Durchs...

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by lbriner on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:45AM (#27503990)
Most people are not accepting but there is only so much power you have over an elected government. Previous suggestions have been stopped though so you can kick up a stink sometimes and have the right results.

I also don't think it is that unique to the UK. It was a multi-national attack that broke EncroChat and the Australians breaking An0m (maybe with US help). Some countries love privacy at all costs like Germany and Scandinavia, some don't even assume they have privacy like Iran and China and those in the middle, like the UK, want to pretend they have privacy and are principled until they need to solve a crime and then it goes out the window!

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by ploika on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:03PM (#27504256)
Just for the avoidance of doubt, Ireland is not part of the UK.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by LatteLazy on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:42PM (#27504781)
English law has basically no protections against search and seizure (no posion tree doctrine). So police are used to doing as they please and politicians like it too. The mathematical impossibility of breaking hard encryption is an afront to literally hundreds of years of entitlement.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by varispeed on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:08PM (#27504335)
It's the "If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" culture. People still trust authorities with their information and believe that nobody cares what kind of illnesses they have or what kind of porn they are into or how their body looks like or what they talked about with mates.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by anigbrowl on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:26PM (#27505360)
Look into the history. Rebellions of all kinds have been ruthlessly and brutally suppressed. The aristocracy is not as important as it used to be in Britain, but but it's still a power-centric society where those without have few choices open to them. Despite winning independence from Britain a century ago and having a clearly written constitution, Ireland kept a great deal of the legal and some of the social culture; following independence the informal power just moved towards the catholic church and (as always, everywhere) toward money.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by lucideer on Monday June 14, 2021 @03:27PM (#27507066)
> cultures of that place

Aside from sensitivity around the (technically correct but the status quo should always be open to question) term "British Isles", even accepting that term geographically, conflating the islands culturally demonstrates a certain level of ignorance on the subject.

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by AlphaSite on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:41PM (#27504765)
I think it’s partly down to more visibility since these are English speaking countries, so the dark underside is more exposed.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by dehrmann on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:49PM (#27504897)
Random thought: they all have terrorist attacks in recent-ish memory.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by Macha on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:57PM (#27505009)
It's Limerick criminal gangs and the typical "think of the children" approach of using pedophiles to limit everyone's freedom that are used in rhetoric here way more than terrorists
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by ploika on Monday June 14, 2021 @05:21PM (#27508461)
The Limerick gangs were more or less dealt with about a decade ago. It's the likes of the Kinahans, and possibly some of the various dissident republican groups, who are much more of a target for this bill.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by Macha on Monday June 14, 2021 @08:15PM (#27509953)
Of course, and we sent the largest organization covering up for pedophiles a nasty letter and let them continue to run schools.

What's used in public discourse and what's at large are two different groups.

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by melesian on Monday June 14, 2021 @06:10PM (#27508962)
Ireland is not a British isle. Irish police are unarmed and the country is not a surveillance state. However, there have been some high profile cases of murders committed by drug gangs who have used encrypted phones to put their communications beyond scrutiny / use in evidence. Ireland is a democracy and the public is perfectly able and willing to change govt if it sees fit (and it does so regularly). I think you'll find that in Ireland the people wonder WTF is wrong with the US that it could elect a cretin like Donald Trump to its highest office, denies healthcare to its citizens, tolerates vote suppression, electoral gerrymandering, mass shootings, endless racially motivated police assassinations, unlimited corporate expenditure in political campaigns etc. Ireland is fully signed up to the EU's GDPR which puts citizen's data rights on a far firmer footing than those of Americans.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by haunter on Monday June 14, 2021 @06:56PM (#27509400)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

>The British Isles are a group of islands in the North Atlantic off the north-western coast of continental Europe, consisting of the islands of Great Britain, Ireland, the Isle of Man, the Hebrides and over six thousand smaller islands.

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by miralize on Monday June 14, 2021 @09:05PM (#27510251)
> In Ireland, the term "British Isles" is controversial, and there are objections to its usage. The Government of Ireland does not officially recognise the term, and its embassy in London discourages its use.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by SahAssar on Tuesday June 15, 2021 @02:43PM (#27519715)
The term "encrypted phone" is meaningless and stupid. Do you use imessage, whatsapp, signal or any chat app that is currently thought of as "good" by tech or privacy people? Then you have an "encrypted phone". Does your phone have a lock code that is not easily hackable? Then you have an "encrypted phone".

It'd be hard to find any person using a smartphone whos phone is not "encrypted".

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by foreigner on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:46PM (#27504848)
Maybe it's socialism? It creates the feeling that we're all in it together.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by s_dev on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:17PM (#27504456)
>What is the deal with the governments of the British Isles being so intrusive and privacy hostile?

I don't consider Ireland to be a "British Isle" -- 26 counties out of 32 on the island are Irish.

How and ever -- we see the US in the same light. You're so hostile to privacy laws like GDPR and we aren't etc.

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by sdflhasjd on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:24PM (#27504558)
The "British Isles" is a geographic term encompassing Great Britain and Ireland, plus some smaller islands.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by lucideer on Monday June 14, 2021 @03:23PM (#27507028)
This is technically correct, but no context is devoid of political overtones and there's very reasonable arguments for decolonising the terminology.

"British Isles" is the widely accepted term internationally in large part due to the historical dominance of the British Empire, coupled with the ongoing influence of the British state internationally (particularly in the anglosphere). It is however not a generally preferred term within Ireland, which is worth noting alongside any technical facts about geography.

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by OJFord on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:36PM (#27504707)
You're correct, and I'm British, but it's not surprising to me that an Irishman would object to it.

Besides, to us 'English Channel' is a geographic term; in France it's La Manche ('the sleeve'). (Having said that we do say 'Irish Sea'.)

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by borvo on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:43PM (#27505603)
Quite correct. Just like “GB” (“Great Britain” or “Grand Bretagne” in the original French) means “large Brittany”.
Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by acta_non_verba on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:22PM (#27504528)
Bizarre comment. British isles is a geographic term, which is correct in this case.

No one for a moment is suggesting that because of that you have to drink tea or invent the computer or anything else that is considered British.

Re:Irish police to be given powers over passwords by adventured on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:18PM (#27505274)
> You're so hostile to privacy laws like GDPR and we aren't etc.

You're arguing about an entirely different context. One involves private corporations, one involves the powers of the government. It's critical to make a distinction between those things, they are not the same issue at all.

Facebook, fortunately, doesn't have taxing authority, regulatory authority, law-passing authority or a private militia. I can banish Facebook from my existence, I can choose never to use their services, and I can legally use numerous options for blocking their ability to track me (and do so quite easily). Try doing that with a government that passes a very invasive law, just tell them to right piss off with their laws, refuse to obey their laws.

It's fine to argue for restrictions on privacy invasion re private corporations. However these are two separate matters to be argued, what should be allowed in the private sphere vs the public/government sphere.