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Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by MattGaiser on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:11PM (#27426991)
And replaced it with DuckDuckGo, which also had it missing.

These actions are usually meaningless, but that makes it extra meaningless.

Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by dredmorbius on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:24PM (#27427168)
I see this as slightly resembling the "EV in a coal-fired electricity generation regime.

Yes, using an EV in a location where the present primary source of generation* is coal has relatively minor impacts on the immediate carbon emissions profile of transportation.

But decoupling an activity from immediate reliance on a specific mode makes future progress more viable.

DuckDuckGo was also strongly criticised for the Tank Man image censorship, despite "merely" being a consumer of Bing's image search. DDG themselves have a reputation to be concerned with, and have been increasing their own public outreach and advertising over recent years, including radio spots (my principle commercial media exposure presently).

So, no, it's not a complete fix. Given the limited options and degree of search market monopoly, it does remain a signal. Though it's also a sharp reminder of the extreme limits of the "consumer choice" argument in a case in which that choice simply does not exist.

Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by simias on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:17PM (#27427068)
Doesn't DuckDuckGo use Bing's results behind the scenes?

At any rate right now I see no obvious censorship: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=tank+man&iax=images&ia=imag...

Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by mdoms on Monday June 07, 2021 @06:33PM (#27428135)
As long as DDG uses Bing's results then they also implement Bing's censorship policies. That's a choice DDG makes.
Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by ashtonkem on Monday June 07, 2021 @07:07PM (#27428483)
Less a choice, more a consequence. It’s not like DDG wants to replicate MS’s search policies, it’s just that DDG lacks the infrastructure to do it on their own. Until they do, this is going to keep happening.
Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by gentleman11 on Monday June 07, 2021 @08:46PM (#27429339)
I don’t think ddg was consulted or informed here. Choice is a strong phrasing
Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by fomine3 on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @03:55AM (#27431723)
I don't blame DDG, but I argue that fallback into Google (self operated search engine, and not operated in China) somewhat makes sense for this.
Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by adventured on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:29PM (#27427249)
That's because Microsoft got caught censoring the results, then they lied and claimed it was a "human error," which absolutely nobody believes.

Then Microsoft manually took an action to restore the image results in Bing for the query "tank man." Which then filtered down to DDG since it relies on Bing (previously DDG's image results were similarly devoid of the proper results).

Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by bigwavedave on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:38PM (#27427375)
> That's because Microsoft got caught censoring the results, then they lied and claimed it was a "human error," which absolutely nobody believes.

Oh, I don't know. If we can label "accidentally using the wrong scope" as a human error, I could easily see a situation where someone meant to remove something from Chinese search results but accidentally did it worldwide. I don't know what their infrastructure is like, what kind of safeguards they have in place, or even what they do to block a result from the all-seeing algorithm. Which is more likely: that Microsoft would allow China to dictate what the rest of the world can/cannot see or that someone made a mistake and blocked something globally instead of regionally?

Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by relativ575 on Monday June 07, 2021 @06:03PM (#27427710)
I find it baffled that a company of that caliber don't have regression tests that can verify region-bound changes wouldn't affect results intended for other regions.
Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by true_religion on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @01:52PM (#27438529)
It was a mistake not an accident. When you make an accident, test safety checks can save you.

However although you don’t intentionally make a mistake, you do intentionally carry it out.

In that case, no amount of safety checking will stop a human being from implementing bad logic.

Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by kbenson on Monday June 07, 2021 @08:06PM (#27428991)
If someone accidentally didn't scope the change as region bound, what makes you think they couldn't accidentally scope the test wrong the same way?

Human error knows no bounds.

Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by Arnavion on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:44PM (#27427465)
>Then Microsoft manually took an action to restore the image results in Bing for the query "tank man."

Did they? https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tank+man has no results of Tank Man. https://imgur.com/a/U5fDs7P (If you do see Tank Man images, see the edit at the end of this comment.)

If you press enter on the search box with the pre-filled "tank man", then you get a URL with more query-string parameters - https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tank+man&imgurl=&cbir=s... , and that page does contain the actual Tank Man.

Seems it can be narrowed down to the form= parameter. https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tank+man&form=QBILPG has Tank Man, without the form= it doesn't. The actual value of the form= parameter doesn't value either, as long as it's not empty.

I have no idea what they're doing in the backend.

Edit: Another weird thing - https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tank+man with JS enabled redirects to a different page with additional querystring parameters, and this page does have Tank Man. My testing above was done with JS disabled, which is why I got the pre-redirect page that doesn't have his pictures.

Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by lamontcg on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:55PM (#27427601)
they probably need the query string for pagination and if you don't have it they redirect you with some javascript which you turning it off breaks. i don't think there's any grand conspiracy there.
Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by Arnavion on Monday June 07, 2021 @06:02PM (#27427703)
Yes, I didn't claim they were doing it intentionally, just that the website's behavior is weird. That's why I said:

>I have no idea what they're doing in the backend.

The pagination theory doesn't make sense to me though. The relevant parameter is called "form", its actual value doesn't matter as long as it's non-empty, and surely a sane implementation would treat the lack of a page parameter as page 1 and not page whatever-the-stormtrooper-image-is-on.

Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by FridayoLeary on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:19PM (#27427105)
I agree it's pretty meaningless [Edit: in fact i posted this in the hope that someone would actually say that]. Didn't Google have the same issue? (correct me if i'm wrong). But still, bing's "explanation" was so incredibly pathetic, weak and opaque, it deserves to be dropped just for that

"This is due to an accidental human error and we are actively working to resolve this.” In their own words. That's it!? They should be tripping over their feet in their haste to apologize! Executives should be coming out of the woodwork apologizing to everyone in sight and offering explanations to congress. But that's just my humble opinion.

Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by delroth on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:59PM (#27427650)
No, Google didn't have this issue, because unlike pretty much all other search engines on the market Google isn't a frontend to Bing (well, I guess there are also a few frontends to Yandex, but they're more rare).
Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by booleandilemma on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:36PM (#27427339)
At least at that point Bing just becomes an implementation detail of DuckDuckGo rather than something Notepad++ uses directly. But yeah, this is definitely not intended to do anything other than be a political statement from Notepad++.
Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by baud147258 on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:38PM (#27427368)
it might depends on something, but DDG is returning results for the tank man search, including images
Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by unyttigfjelltol on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:14PM (#27427019)
I searched the term in DDG when this was on HN previously; the search was not censored on DDG. [edit] I recall it was at the time bing's search was still blank but I don't have a technical explanation for the different results.
Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by inigojonesguy on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:23PM (#27427150)
Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by donohoe on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:18PM (#27427079)
I believe it was - but only because DDG relies on Bing for much of its search
Re:Notepad++ drops Bing after “tank man” censorship by MattGaiser on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:20PM (#27427110)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27394925

Maybe DDG corrected it earlier? But DDG is as affected for many on here.