I live in Germany and I go to parks to freestyle with a soccer ball. My issue has always been dogs off lease interfering with my personal business. I have some balls with bite marks. I have been snubbed and sometimes gotten a rude response from owners.
I have lived in the USA also. My observation generally is that people find it weird when you say you don't like dogs/cats/etc -- almost like they are hearing it for the first time. This was a big difference from my home place.
I don't hate them, I just feel totally uncomfortable. Sometimes I feel my heart racing or I just totally freeze when I see a dog off lease nearby. (I would love to fix this: would appreciate any pointers).
I’ve had a couple of friends who were afraid like you, where I would not bring my dog (a Vizsla - Quite energetic and very into people, so not a good idea to take him if I want those friends to feel comfortable). They started to come round to dogs generally after hanging out with friends that have smaller more docile breeds. Eventually they felt more comfortable and after shorter interactions with mine they got familiar with how the dog behaves, what motivates them, what they understand etc and slowly figure out that most are similar. So I’m not sure this is helpful, but that’s been my experience.
That's an interesting sentence.
I’m from USA. On the same page with you here about the collectivist vs individual freedom. As you noted it’s a tragedy of the commons—-because unquestioned individual freedom is prized so heavily in USA, some dog owners take advantage of it without appropriate precaution, and those people tend to do things like call the police on black people, or scare and injure children by accident with their dogs, and these incidents correspondingly build our stereotype of off-leashers. Ironically this also leads to laws and rules and a general social attitude that restrict our individual freedom to walk dogs off leash.
In that way, Europeans are more ‘individually free’ on this topic because, as you note, off leash dog walking is totally normal over there because people wouldn’t think of doing it without appropriate control of their dog. Interesting to think about the tension and paradoxes between individual and collectivist freedoms.
But, you probably have some annoying dog tax ;)
The tax is from the local municipality, and I think it’s for upkeep of some dog infrastructure - dedicated dog parks, bins with little bags. It’s not much
This passage doesn't make sense. It's a word salad.
To start with, do you know what a tragedy of the commons is?
Second, why would "individual freedom being prized so heavily" entail "people tending to do things like call the police"? Are you familiar with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unofficial_collaborator and the like in authoritarian countries?
Third, what's the source for this bizarre claim that "those [dog owners] tend to do things like call the police on black people"?
Fourth, in what way is the latter at all relevant to the topic?
And they all say their dog is well behaved and doesn't do such things.
This is interesting to me because we have no such assurances about other humans either. But acting on the fear that a given human isn't adequately trained and restrained is labeled with every variant of ignorance.
- It's well dressed instead of naked
- It walks on two feet
- It speaks English
... And vice versa.
I think the assumption is, at least from mine and others like me, is that if your dog is off-leash, you can handle your dog off-leash. The same if you bring friends to some social event, you wouldn't bring them if you can't handle them and they can behave in public. I'm not afraid they are gonna attack me, although sometimes humans do attack other humans, most of them are fine so no need to worry in general.
> but where I’m from we have a scourge of ignorant owners who are not in control of their dogs. They ruin it for everybody.
Yes, I agree, it's terrible when owners have no control over their dogs. But that's not relevant to the leash itself, that's relevant to the expertise of the owner. Dogs on leashes misbehave as well, and can easily (if wanted and the owner is a terrible one) unleash themselves by either raw power or the owner not paying attention.
Which may apply to 90% of off leash dogs. Unfortunately, the other 10% that have dogs that *cannot* be off leash, but do so anyway ruin it for you.
There are people that are afraid of dogs. They have no way of knowing, at a distance, whether your dogs will behave or run up to them. So when they see any dog off leash in a leash required area, they have to take a large detour to give the off leash dogs a wide enough berth.
If you’re in an area where leashes are required, and you have your dogs off leash (no matter how well trained they are) you are being extremely inconsiderate of the other people around you.
As a dog owner as well, I wish there were more acceptable off leash places in society for dogs, and I cherish the areas where off leash behavior is acceptable. But taking them off leash, when others have a fair expectation that they will be leashed is rude and inconsiderate.
Finally, in my personal experience the number of well trained off leash dogs (that can behave appropriately in a “leash required” setting), is nowhere near 90%. In fact, I would say the majority of off leash dogs I run across do not behave appropriately. It’s probably closer to 25% of the off leash dogs I run across that are trained well enough that they behave acceptably in on-leash settings
> Taking them off leash, when others have a fair expectation that they will be leashed is rude and inconsiderate.
This sums it up perfectly. Thank you!
Not sure why you say "well trained", the owners have obviously not trained the dog and has no business being off the leash, they are not well trained by any definition and you won't see dogs like that without a leash here in Barcelona.
> > Taking them off leash, when others have a fair expectation that they will be leashed is rude and inconsiderate.
> This sums it up perfectly. Thank you!
So... If there is no expectation of having your dog on the leash, then it's not rude and inconsiderate? Makes me feel a bit better at least, as the expectation here where I live seems to be very different than where you folks live.
He was using scare quotes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes
Yea, I would agree with that. If there’s a legal expectation, or shared social expectation that an area requires a leash, then it’s rude and inconsiderate to have a dog off leash in that area.
If no such expectation exists, then off leash dogs are much more acceptable.
> the expectation here where I live seems to be very different than where you folks live.
There’s not a single expectation where I live, it varies by the place that you are. In certain areas of the city, dogs are required to be on a leash, while in the rest of they city they are not required.
In most parks in the city, dogs are required to be on a leash, but there are certain parks where dogs are allowed off leash.
My expectations of people’s behavior are largely driven by those laws, as that seems like the best way that we have to create shared expectations about different spaces.
This is my sister, exactly. At age four she was chased by an off-leash Alsatian and to this day is nervous of any off-leash large dog
No, this is not the same. You are legally responsible for the behavior of your dog.
If you let your dog off leash in a place where it is illegal to do so, congratulations: you've just lost the lawsuit.
If anything remotely funny happens -- regardless of what -- the liability can and will fall on the dog-owner for their reckless behavior. The real sad part of this is when the dog gets put down for the stupid owner...but my point is the people who let their dogs off leash have also posted a big, red sign saying "I'm responsible for anything happening here" -- even though few of them seem aware of that fact. Liability only becomes a question again if there is another dog-owner with their dog off leash.
Maybe, but I'd still feel safer if they were properly leashed and muzzled.
I walk a cat -on a leash- and dogs without a leash are a real problem to be on the lookout for at all times.
This is the problem right here. We have no idea whether your dogs are properly trained or not. There is no certification or regulation for having a dog off leash. We have no idea if they’re going to suddenly snap and, in the worst case scenario, viciously attack a baby, something they are biologically quite capable of.
It is probably different in collectivist societies where folks consider proper training a prerequisite to going off-leash, but where I’m from we have a scourge of ignorant owners who are not in control of their dogs. They ruin it for everybody.