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Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by bellyfullofbac on Thursday June 03, 2021 @07:55AM (#27379918)
Ha, coming soon: the local gang showing up at your door asking to see your logs to make sure you haven't snitched on them to the police.

And the police harassing you because they know you have a Ring equipment but they never got footage from your camera's angle...

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by that_guy_iain on Thursday June 03, 2021 @08:20AM (#27380177)
Honestly, in the neighbourhood I grew up in, this would basically make having Amazon Ring a no-no. Noone in their right minds would want to have anything to do with it. You would be targetted and not just by the gangs.
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by merpnderp on Thursday June 03, 2021 @08:51AM (#27380484)
Non-criminals would 'target' you for helping stop the criminals? What kind of bizarro place is that?
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by that_guy_iain on Thursday June 03, 2021 @09:13AM (#27380765)
No, not all the criminals are in the gangs. Nearly everyone in the neighbourhood was a criminal of some sort. Everyone else just kept their mouth shut.
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by throwaway0a5e on Thursday June 03, 2021 @10:42AM (#27382105)
"Everyone else" was probably a criminal too of some sort. They just hadn't received enough police scrutiny to make it official. It's basically impossible to follow all the laws (even ignoring the civil infraction stuff) all the time and live a reasonable life.
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by OJFord on Thursday June 03, 2021 @10:57AM (#27382331)
Especially if you live in a country with the word 'jaywalking'...
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by throwaway0a5e on Thursday June 03, 2021 @01:30PM (#27384611)
Jaywalking is typically (i.e. I know of now jurisdiction in the west where it's not) a civil infraction. Though if the cops want to be dicks they can pretend not to know and arrest you but they can do that with any law or they can get you for a nebulous contempt of cop offense but they can do that anytime. It's on-par with a parking ticket, littering or not removing your trash bin from the street after trash day.

If you don't pay the fine (and don't show up in court to tell them why you can't afford it) that's the criminal infraction and that's when they put a warrant out.

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by OJFord on Thursday June 03, 2021 @08:07PM (#27388968)
> Jaywalking is typically (i.e. I know of now jurisdiction in the west where it's not)

In the UK it doesn't even exist. We look it up after hearing the word on N American 'movies'/TV 'shows'.

> a civil infraction

IANAL, but my understanding is that the key difference between criminal & civil law is that the latter always has a (an alleged) victim, and it is he who is the claimant.

Is that wrong? Or right but there's some supposed victim of 'jaywalking' (the state on behalf of drivers?!) who goes around suing 'jaywalkers'?

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by jbjohns on Thursday June 03, 2021 @01:03PM (#27384209)
Where I live we have jaywalking laws but they only apply if you are within a reasonable distance to a cross walk. I think it's possible to have reasonable laws so long as you have relatively reasonable politicians. :)
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by MaxBarraclough on Thursday June 03, 2021 @11:49AM (#27383150)
̶I̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶ ̶j̶a̶y̶w̶a̶l̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶s̶i̶d̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶r̶i̶m̶i̶n̶a̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶n̶t̶r̶y̶.̶

edit: This is mistaken.

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by OJFord on Thursday June 03, 2021 @12:14PM (#27383522)
Then what is it, in any country that has the word? (Here we call it 'crossing the road'.)
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by throwaway0a5e on Thursday June 03, 2021 @01:35PM (#27384693)
A civil infraction (or some other word for the same thing).

Like walking your dog in a park that has a no-dogs sign.

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by OJFord on Thursday June 03, 2021 @08:13PM (#27389003)
That would be a local bye-law, which is neither criminal nor civil but could become criminal.
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by MaxBarraclough on Thursday June 03, 2021 @12:31PM (#27383769)
I'm aware you can be arrested for it in the US (which is to say I'm mistaken, it does fall under criminal law), but can it get you a criminal record?

Somewhat related: here in the UK, littering is technically a crime, but apparently [0] you'll only get a criminal record if you refuse to pay the fine.

[0] https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/roads-and-pavements/fines-and-o...

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by teachrdan on Thursday June 03, 2021 @01:30PM (#27384600)
Here in California, jaywalking is an infraction, not a crime. Jaywalkers (who are caught) have to pay a fine. It can basically be considered getting sued by the city for breaking the rules.

If you can't pay the fine, it can turn into a warrant that can get you arrested. Thus jaywalking actually is a crime, but only for poor people.

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by dragonwriter on Thursday June 03, 2021 @01:42PM (#27384789)
> If you can't pay the fine, it can turn into a warrant that can get you arrested.

Technically, inability to pay does not have this effect, only refusal. But you have to actually show up to court (as specified in the ticket, which is a summons to appear with bail that can be forfeited in lieu of appearance) and assert hardship to get a different penalty or payment arrangement set if you are unable to pay; if you just ignore the summons and don’t pay the bail set, then you are committing a crime.

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by devmor on Thursday June 03, 2021 @04:09PM (#27386649)
And if you are significantly poor, missing a day's work to show up to court can cost you your rent, or your job, etc.

So it's still a crime for poor people only.

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by chrismcb on Friday June 04, 2021 @03:31PM (#27398057)
That is why you put it in writing and mail it to court.
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by throwaway0a5e on Thursday June 03, 2021 @01:44PM (#27384832)
Nobody in those examples was arrested for jaywalking.

All of them were arrested for bullshit "contempt of cop" type offenses. If they could arrest people for jaywalking they would have done that because arresting someone for something they've actually done makes for a much harder charge to beat. Jaywalking is just the pretext.

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by Jcowell on Thursday June 03, 2021 @11:03AM (#27382397)
A criminal is not some who allegedly breaks laws but someone who is convicted of breaking the law. Even if you were arrested by police you still aren’t a criminal.
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by stretchwithme on Thursday June 03, 2021 @12:19PM (#27383599)
If a person is committing crimes, they're a criminal.
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by optimiz3 on Thursday June 03, 2021 @12:51PM (#27384047)
Allegedly. What is a transgression of the law and whether a law is just or valid can be open to interpretation, which is why we have juries.
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by stretchwithme on Thursday June 03, 2021 @01:37PM (#27384721)
No. If I had said someone allegedly committed a crime, they allegedly are a criminal.

If I see them murdering someone, I'm not going to say to myself "That person is allegedly a criminal".

I am allowed to think, to have an opinion about reality.

There's also no need to call them a suspect if you just saw a person committing a crime.

When you haven't yet proved that a specific person did it, they're a suspect. The crime is alleged.

But not when you KNOW it. I'm not saying newspapers should say that or a court should say that. I'm saying I have no problem describing what I see.

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by nojokes on Thursday June 03, 2021 @07:55PM (#27388896)
> If I see them murdering someone, I'm not going to say to myself "That person is allegedly a criminal".

Maybe you saw wrong? Hmm?

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by netizen-936824 on Friday June 04, 2021 @07:11AM (#27392424)
Oh not him! His eyesight and memory are infallible!
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by stretchwithme on Friday June 04, 2021 @05:55PM (#27399516)
When witnesses give testimony in court, they simply relate what they saw. They do not need to couch it CYA language.

I did notice that your statement is pretty confident about what I think. No "allegedly" required. No "I suspect he believes X and Y". These imaginary rules don't seem to apply to you.

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by stretchwithme on Friday June 04, 2021 @10:55AM (#27394206)
If I discover that the person is actually not dead, I would certainly think my conclusion.
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by nojokes on Friday June 04, 2021 @11:14AM (#27394414)
Have you considered that maybe you could not recognize the person correctly?
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by stretchwithme on Friday June 04, 2021 @03:25PM (#27397983)
Have you considered that my statement was about the person that I saw?
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by bryanrasmussen on Thursday June 03, 2021 @10:11AM (#27381625)
well, let's suppose your Ring catches someone loitering in your neighborhood that looks like the 'wrong sort' and the police come out to check on the 'wrong sort' and they just happen to kill them - and then to explain why they had to kill the wrong sort of people they say they found some drugs on them...

What kind of bizarro place is that?

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by merpnderp on Thursday June 03, 2021 @02:53PM (#27385739)
If you think not having the police around is better than having the police around, I hope you never have to raise children in a place like the parent was describing.
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by setr on Thursday June 03, 2021 @07:04PM (#27388561)
In the places that the parent is describing, the police aren't your allies. The more dangerous the area, the more aggressive and hostile the police (at least to some degree by necessity), and the stronger the "presumed guilty" takes hold, and the more hostile the population itself is to the police.

In the worst of those areas, the gangs themselves take on the role of the police (offering services such as protection, policy enforcement, loans, etc).

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by idiotsecant on Thursday June 03, 2021 @06:19PM (#27388164)
Spoken from a true position of privilege! There are many communities where the police and the criminals are both likely to cause you trouble somewhere between a mild hassle and a life-altering interaction. The only difference is why they might do it. Distrust of the police amount law-abiding populations is a thing for a reason.
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by sneak on Thursday June 03, 2021 @11:29AM (#27382822)
Surveillance has other effects than helping to impede criminals (note also that this effect is dependent wholly on police initiative and competence, as well, two things often lacking in minor crime investigations).

Not everyone wants to be under surveillance 24/7, even if it does aid police sometimes in reducing crime, as it also aids police in doing the other things police do that are unrelated to law enforcement (harassment, theft, intimidation, extortion, et c).

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by annoyingnoob on Thursday June 03, 2021 @12:17PM (#27383565)
There are streets in my neighborhood I don't walk down because almost everyone has a Ring camera. I don't want to be followed around by Ring when I walk the dog.
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by gruez on Thursday June 03, 2021 @09:07AM (#27380676)
or maybe he's talking about non gang criminals?
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by madcow2 on Thursday June 03, 2021 @09:08AM (#27380683)
Places where kids sell crack to their parents because the alternative is the parents going to some unrelated crack dealer that will treat them much worse.

And this is in the US.

PS- feel free to replace "crack" with meth, heroine, etc

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by Cthulhu_ on Thursday June 03, 2021 @10:12AM (#27381639)
insulin
Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by Filligree on Thursday June 03, 2021 @11:47AM (#27383117)
Illegal smuggling of low-cost insulin is becoming a big issue, yes. Hopefully there's a crack-down on the way.

/s

Re:Amazon Ring’s neighborhood watch app is making police req... by jessehattabaugh on Thursday June 03, 2021 @03:38PM (#27386284)
My doorbell camera isn't even a Ring, but the local teens still make a point to flip it off every time they see it come on. Makes me want to put up a sign that says "not a snitch!"