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Re:Bring back the station wagon by bruceb on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:17PM (#27358942)
They have these, they are called Subaru Outbacks. There is no shortage of them in the Northwest, SV, Boulder, Maine, etc.

Fits 5, not 8, but today's families are smaller than 1960.

It has been essentially the same car for 20 years. A 2020 Outback looks not that much different than a 2000 Outback.

Always surprised Toyota just doesn't copy it. But maybe the thinking is, a "Toyota Outback" would take away from Toyota SUV sales more than from Subaru.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by claytonjy on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:24PM (#27359070)
I strongly disagree; somewhere around 2010 the outback was redone to embrace the crossover trend and IMO has not been a wagon since. It's been a slightly less ugly Crosstrek for the last decade. They also killed the manual option.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by D13Fd on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @11:45AM (#27370037)
Agreed. Up until last year, I owned both (pre- and post-redesign models). They drove differently. The 2004 was clearly station-wagon-like, and the 2010 was not.

I liked driving the 2004 version more. It just felt faster, likely because it was lower to the ground. But the 2010 looks much more attractive, and the extra vertical space makes it much easier to transport large things. For example, we once fit a full-size washing machine and a full-size dryer in the back of the 2010 after we came across them at a yard sale on a day trip. They would never have fit in the 2004.

All of that said, the 2004 was unlike a station wagon in that there was no third-row seating option. It maxed out at 5 people.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by arprocter on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:50PM (#27360296)
Agree, and something similar happened with the Forester

I guess they try to sell what folks want to buy - at least the WRX and STI still exist (parallels to the Porsche SUVs keeping the 911 alive)

Re:Bring back the station wagon by throwaway0a5e on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @10:10PM (#27363987)
Yup. 2010 was when they really divorced it from the Legacy platform and it became its own thing.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by mikeyouse on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:26PM (#27359094)
Yep - own a 2020 Outback - it's great! But definitely larger than the Station Wagons of yore.

Pretty good mileage (over 30mpg highway) and very spacious for weekend trips or longer commutes (5 adults sit comfortably).

It's fairly capable towing - can easily pull a pair of SeaDoos or a small utility trailer and has all the "smart" bells and whistles as standard equipment vs. the Audi Allroad we were comparing it against where the lane-keeping/blind spot detection was only available on the +$15k trim.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by mywittyname on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:54PM (#27359523)
> But definitely larger than the Station Wagons of yore.

Hehe,

2020 Outback

    Wheelbase 2,750 mm (108.3 in)[3]

    Length 4,840 mm (190.6 in)[3]

    Width 1,840 mm (72.4 in)[3]

    Height 1,500 mm (59.1 in)[3]
Roadmaster Wagon (the one mentioned in the article article)

    Wheelbase 115.9 in (2,944 mm)

    Length 217.7 in (5,530 mm)

    Width 79.9 in (2,029 mm)

    Height 60.3 in (1,532 mm)
As you can see, Grandpa's old station wagon was a fucking beast compared to a modern Subaru. Two feet longer, half a foot wider, 1000lbs heavier and taller to boot.

People forget just how big old station wagons were. I used to roll in a B body, so it amuses me when people talk about how much bigger cars are today. Like, yeah, a Civic of today is the size of an Accord of the 90s, but those old full-sized GM cars were gigantic land yachts.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by throwaway0a5e on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @10:14PM (#27364014)
>1000lbs heavier and taller to boot.

About the same weight (4k per Google) and the road-master is shorter.

Hell, an Altima is pushing into 80s base trim half-ton curb weight territory.

>People forget just how big old station wagons were. I used to roll in a B body, so it amuses me when people talk about how much bigger cars are today.

Because the overwhelming majority of people who are saying these things were born to well enough to do families that they never got to live first hand the experience of the Country Squire that had to do it all. There was the minivan for kid hauling and the Accord (or whatever) for commuting.

You know how people today judge a Dodge Journey or used Chevy Tahoe. That's what station wagons were back then.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by mywittyname on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @06:05PM (#27374605)
> About the same weight (4k per Google) and the road-master is shorter.

Not sure your sources, but a 94s Roadmaster weighed about 4572lbs according to the Owners Manual. Perhaps you were looking the sedan weight?

The Outback is 3753 in base or 3917 in turbo guise. So maybe not 1000lbs, but not far off.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by mikeyouse on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @04:46PM (#27361042)
That's wild.. the Outback just barely fits into our very average sized garage. I can't imagine a vehicle over two feet longer.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by mywittyname on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @04:47PM (#27361053)
Now you know why people never used their garages for cars in the 70-80s.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by souprock on Thursday June 03, 2021 @01:31AM (#27377558)
As a kid I rode around in a bigger station wagon, the Mercury Montego, which was 223.1 in (5,667 mm).

Now I drive a Ford E350 that is 236.7 in (6,012 mm). It's 3.45 feet longer than your Outback. I think it's the smallest car that will hold my family. It looks like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ford_E-Series_wagon.jpg

Re:Bring back the station wagon by shahar2k on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @04:26PM (#27360825)
how much of that is dedicated to the passenger compartment
Re:Bring back the station wagon by AnotherGoodName on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @05:43PM (#27361760)
For old wagons the front 2 rows of seats were always the same dimensions as the car they were based off. The differences were always purely in the very back section of the car behind the back seats onwards. In fact if you looked carefully you could pretty much always see the seem in these cars from where the top of the rear window would have been around to the floor as they were created by welding an extra section on the rear.

So basically think of the largest old sedan you've ever been in. It's that much room.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by drooogs on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:23PM (#27359046)
a 2020 outback is considerably larger in every dimension than a 2000 outback and rides quite a bit higher. it's no more a station wagon than any other crossover.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by bruceb on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:30PM (#27359169)
Seems 1.4 inches higher for ground clearance between 2000 and 2019 models. I guess eye of the beholder. https://groundclearances.com/subaru-outback-ground-clearance... 2020 is 6 inches longer, and 4 inches wider. 8 inches higher overall. So yes bigger.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by throwaway0a5e on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @10:17PM (#27364029)
A 2000 outback is a (I'm going to stop just short of saying literally but I really want to) 1989 Legacy with redesigned cosmetic body panels, interior and some extra supported welded into places you can't see.

You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between the stripped shells without looking at the head/tail light opening shaped. The pile of drive-train parts is more or less identical save a 5-gal bucket of minor stuff

Re:Bring back the station wagon by zoomablemind on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @06:48PM (#27362453)
> They have these, they are called Subaru Outbacks.

To add to the Outbacks are Volvos, maybe not as omnipresent in the US recently, but in my mind Volvo is hardwired to stationwagon form.

Another rather recent urban sighting is VW wagons, kinda odd to spot these among the sea of their SUVs.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by fatnoah on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @11:06AM (#27369571)
I've owned an Outback and an XC70. I vastly preferred the latter, despite the cost. It could hold an amazing amount of stuff (partially due to the more boxy rear with fewer protrusions), far more than the Outback.

The XC70 was also amazing to own in the city. It was like driving a mountain goat. There were many times where I was able to parallel park in an uncleared spot in the winter.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by zoomablemind on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @08:04PM (#27363075)
A nice retrospection of notable Volvo Wagon incarnations:

https://www.volvocars.com/au/about/australia/i-roll-enewslet...

Re:Bring back the station wagon by flyingfences on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @09:11AM (#27368268)
The VW wagons, like most, have been discontinued except in the "lifted" (a la Outback) form.

Volvos are great, but they're an upmarket marque. IIRC the cheapest wagon they offer stateside starts aroumd $50k.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by hoppyhoppy2 on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @09:15AM (#27368298)
The base Volvo XC40 starts at $34k in the US. Not cheap, but not $50k
Re:Bring back the station wagon by flyingfences on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @09:24AM (#27368387)
And the XC series are crossovers, not wagons. Their cheapest US wagon is the V60, which starts at $40k (okay, I was wrong) without options, still well over the price of a typical middle-class car-buyer.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by SyzygistSix on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @07:53PM (#27362989)
I'm just waiting for the cross country wagons to have a plugin hybrid or electric option.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by hoppyhoppy2 on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @09:02AM (#27368195)
The Volvo XC40 and XC60 both have plug-in hybrid versions available, and the XC40 is also available in a full-electric version
Re:Bring back the station wagon by SyzygistSix on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @12:48PM (#27370920)
They are nice enough vehicles but they are ugly crossovers, in my opinion. For that kind of money I'd rather buy a beautiful wagon.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by AnotherGoodName on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:42PM (#27359347)
I actually went from an old ugly station wagon (a Falcon EA Wagon) to an Outback. The Outback is not very large compared to traditional wagons and much higher off the ground. A few thoughts on a 1999 Outback vs a 1988 EA Falcon Station wagon:

The rear of the Falcon was so wide it could take a full (Australian standard) pallet in the trunk with the back seats folded down. I assume it was designed with this in mind and I was called on to move pallets at my work a lot in my younger days thanks to this car. The Outback could not do this. There's far far less space and the wheel wells on the Subaru are huge.

The Subaru Outback also objectively had less power than the older EA falcon (165hp vs 186hp) was higher off the ground and had AWD. This meant the Subaru was better off-road but worse everywhere else, in particular for freeway driving. I never went off road despite living in rural Australia.

I miss the old Falcon station wagons. They were essentially a car designed for regional Australia in every way. They don't make the Falcons in Australia anymore though. Ford insists that a Ford Fusion is the equivalent and imports those instead rather than continuing the Australian production lines.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by dkarp on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @11:10AM (#27369607)
I spent some time living in Queensland and picked up a used Falcon off some German backpackers. That car cost $2000 and never really had anything wrong with it. I drove it up and down the coast and into the hinterland, mostly sleeping in a blow up mattress in the back with our surf boards. I even towed a trailer to help a friend move home with it.

Good memories!

Re:Bring back the station wagon by exidy on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @02:35AM (#27365611)
I heard a rumour that Ford AU designed the Falcon wagon load area to a certain dimension because Telstra promised they would buy a lot of them if they did. Helped explained the somewhat more bulbous look of the Falcon's rear end compared to its Commodore competitor.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by dd444fgdfg on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @06:29PM (#27362295)
the pallet fit was because of the ute variant, but I think you knew that
Re:Bring back the station wagon by Zak on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @04:11PM (#27360610)
The Outback was conceived as a lifted Legacy wagon. Now the Legacy is no longer sold as a wagon in the US.

It appears platform consolidation means that the latest generation of Legacy and Outback don't differ as significantly as one or two generations earlier, but you can't get the wagon without the lifted suspension.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by nikolay on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @04:24PM (#27360794)
The Outback is no comparison. Yes, it's better than a Honda Fit, but nothing like a station wagon. Wagons are popular in Europe - not sure why people prefer SUVs here. I've always disliked SUVs for having a higher center of gravity and being less stable on turns. Minivans are too bulky.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by AtlasBarfed on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @10:48PM (#27364212)
Yes, the crossover is simply a station wagon that attempts to attach itself to the decades of sport utility vehicle advertising about tromping through parks and being "sporty".

It's almost to the point that a minivan is actually a nonconformist choice.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by adamcstephens on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @06:23PM (#27362230)
Until Subaru offers 2WD cars, they will be inefficient options. Why can’t we also have station wagons that are designed solely for the road?
Re:Bring back the station wagon by jlg23 on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @07:22PM (#27362747)
AWD does not automatically imply off-road capabilities, just better/safer handling. The chassis ain't made for loads encountered off-road.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by throwaway0a5e on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @10:23PM (#27364070)
It makes an obscene amount of difference.

A FWD wagon will practically get stuck on wet grass if there's even a slight incline. AWD is a ton better. And I say this as someone who has FWD and AWD variants of the same station wagon in my garage right now.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by adamcstephens on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @09:37PM (#27363785)
Sure, AWD is great for some conditions. It’s not necessary for most, and with good tires a FWD can be just as safe. The problem is that full time AWD is less fuel efficient.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by throwaway0a5e on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @10:22PM (#27364060)
They offered FWD through 1993. The real world gains in fuel economy were negligible then and less now.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by nradov on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @10:12PM (#27363999)
There is nearly zero efficiency penalty for modern AWD systems.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by plerpin on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @12:48PM (#27370913)
Toyota makes a version of the Outback, it's called the Venza. People ignore it and buy the Highlander instead.
Re:Bring back the station wagon by bruceb on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @02:22PM (#27372156)
I had seen them on the street, but always said v6 on them, and I don't care about power, would rather have better gas millage.

Looking it up, they do have 4 cylinder versions. I think the other problem is the sight lines don't look great but admittedly I have not been in a Vernza. I see the 2021 version is now a basically a SUV and not a wagon.

Re:Bring back the station wagon by lpasselin on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @08:32PM (#27363338)
Toyota owns 20% of Subaru.