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Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by ericmay on Thursday May 27, 2021 @09:28AM (#27302804)
Does Klarna still do the IQ test as part of their hiring process?
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by artemonster on Thursday May 27, 2021 @09:48AM (#27303056)
tangential thought, but related: I am, in general, a proponent of nuclear energy as a green alternative to whatever the hell we are doing today. But when I see such stories that humans manage to fuck up simple payment processing apps, still make errors while maintaining bridges, still manage to do hugely negligent screw-ups (most likely corrupt) in *cable cars maintenance*, I immediately think that it is imminent, that something will go wrong with such complex thing as a nuclear reactor and the price there is much bigger.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by viraptor on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:20AM (#27303469)
I kind of get the worry, but the requirements and processes seem to scale exponentially with reliability needs. Online companies may fuck up every day in new and creative ways and we barely get to hear about it. On the other hand we know of every nuclear failure so far with enough public details to discuss the whole time line, system design, steps each person followed, etc. and the death count is still minimal. Then each of those is an input to the future processes. Nuclear power plants and air traffic are in their own class of reliability and safety processes - not even comparable to that's happening in internet commerce.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by klmadfejno on Thursday May 27, 2021 @11:06AM (#27304003)
We know every nuclear failure. We don't know every time a strong nuclear risk existed but by chance, didn't trigger. Nuclear power plants are probably much safer on average, but it only takes one corner cutting plant to cause a nuclear accident.

That said, I'm also pro-nuclear.

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by bellyfullofbac on Thursday May 27, 2021 @09:53AM (#27303134)
The Italian cable car was really messed up. The emergency brakes of that cart were intermittently triggering, so the operator jammed a piece of metal to stop that from happening.

His assumption is surely, "Relax, what's going to happen, the cable won't break!".

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by ectopod on Thursday May 27, 2021 @03:19PM (#27306990)
> The emergency brakes of that cart were intermittently triggering

My guess: each time a strand within the cable broke the cable stretched a little and the brake triggered.

Five years ago a company was hired to maintain the cable car. They took one look at the state of it, wrote to the operator (the town council) saying it needed to be shut down and exited the contract. It was an accident waiting to happen long before the brake fiasco.

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by swiley on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:50AM (#27303834)
There are also plenty of services with really incredible uptime. You just don't hear about them because they're deep in whatever stack you're using and haven't broken publicly in decades.

It's all about good engineering practice and architecture.

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by papito on Thursday May 27, 2021 @03:11PM (#27306896)
In fairness, the government does not watch over your shoulder if you write code for payment apps. Nuclear energy oversight is so over-the-top, it's almost not worth doing it.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by lwhi on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:33AM (#27303628)
Yes! We will always make huge mistakes.

.. so we need to accept the eventuality that the worst result will eventually occur.

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by pdkl95 on Thursday May 27, 2021 @11:41AM (#27304399)
...which is why it's important to design things to fail safely. That "worst result" needs to be minimized by design.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by lwhi on Thursday May 27, 2021 @02:17PM (#27306266)
With nuclear .. that's probably a bit difficult
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by zentiggr on Thursday May 27, 2021 @02:48PM (#27306623)
There are much-safer-by-design reactor plans out there now. Hopefully the "nuclear is horribly unsafe by default" opinions will consider the new options.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by lwhi on Thursday May 27, 2021 @06:46PM (#27309550)
The worst scenario is always meltdown.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by vishnugupta on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:11AM (#27303360)
Oh boy this brought back memories for me.

I thought that IQ test was screening test, pre-phone interview. But no, they had me redo it at the onsite interview too. The funny part was the onsite test had the exact same questions as pre-phone interview.

edit: typo

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by ericmay on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:28AM (#27303565)
Ha.

I remember doing it too. I was at work in a meeting and they have instructions saying something to the tune of finding a quiet place and all of that, but my thoughts were if they are serious about this, then solving these abstract problems is something I'll have to be able to do while under pressure or under the heat of conversation.

Long story short anyway, I'm not intelligent enough to work there I guess, so good thing they used that test to screen me out and make sure I knew. It does have a little bit of merit with the very quick no versus the long, drawn out no. I recently interviewed at a great company, 4 1-1 interviews, a presentation/demo I had to make to present to 7 other people, etc. and I think another interview after that and I'm just over it.

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by domano on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:21AM (#27303479)
Maybe to check for cheaters
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by claudex on Thursday May 27, 2021 @11:10AM (#27304044)
Asking the same question doesn't help a lot to find cheater with a memory.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by macintux on Thursday May 27, 2021 @11:30AM (#27304266)
Weeds out those who had someone else take it, though.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by kukallan on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:17AM (#27303428)
Yes, sadly a quite common part in too many recruitment processes here in Sweden.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by tephra on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:30AM (#27303601)
My first job at a consulting company out of uni I had to to an IQ test that could also indicate if I had rabies.

It had questions like "are you afraid of water", "have you showered in the last three weeks", "have you felt more aggressive lately"...

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by rwoerz on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:43AM (#27303735)
Considering these questions, have you honestly answered "yes" to the last one?
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by retzkek on Thursday May 27, 2021 @12:41PM (#27305076)
I've had to take the MMPI [1] for an employer before. About 500 true/false questions to screen for mental health disorders. Some of the questions seem quite outlandish but taken as a whole make sense.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Multiphasic_Personal...

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by somedude895 on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:38AM (#27303684)
I'm sorry what?
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by vmception on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:43AM (#27303739)
It’s a joke about the pattern of questions
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by mikestew on Thursday May 27, 2021 @11:36AM (#27304333)
It also assumes that one knows that rabies can cause hydrophobia:

https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/16749/why-does-r...

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by domano on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:20AM (#27303466)
Wow, first time i hear that. Aren't those IQ test horribly biased?
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by lmkg on Thursday May 27, 2021 @12:14PM (#27304758)
In the United States, the Supreme Court has ruled that using IQ tests for employment screening can violate Title VII of the Civil Rights Act.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by pvillano on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:23AM (#27303502)
not only that, but they aren't a great predictor of actual job performance
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by tarsinge on Thursday May 27, 2021 @12:00PM (#27304586)
Given that these tests don't evaluate critical thinking and knowledge of statistics it's quite ironic but coherent for the company using these tests.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by wreath on Friday May 28, 2021 @02:08AM (#27312236)
They are a great predictor of actual job environment though (the test, not its results)
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by weird-eye-issue on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:44AM (#27303749)
Depends on the job actually. (I know this will be unpopular but in my experience hiring for certain roles it is correlated)
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by willeh on Thursday May 27, 2021 @11:26AM (#27304219)
This is exactly why these IQ-test companies make so much money. It gives out yeses and no:s confirmation bias does the rest.

Quickly why they don't work:

You create a huge chain correlational assumptions. First that visual-spatial tasks of this kind predict performance on visual tasks. 2. That performance on visual tasks predict general intelligence (whatever that is). 3. That this notion of general intelligence (which is usually and arbitrarily defined not to include social skills) actually correlates with the tasks that you think the person will be performing, and finally that your idea of what the role has an impact on the company. Of course it is completely absurd, what they are selling is snake oil, plain and simple.

The remedy I recommend is simple, talk to the person - do it and you will be able to tell within 5 minutes.

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by weird-eye-issue on Thursday May 27, 2021 @07:45PM (#27310014)
I use it to filter out candidates when hiring assistants from the Philippines. I get so many applicants that I don't have time to talk to all of them. Have you been on the hiring end? You get hundreds of applications within a couple days when you have a good position and are paying well enough.

There is a strong correlation between IQ and professional achievement whether you want to believe it or not.

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by ericmay on Thursday May 27, 2021 @11:42AM (#27304402)
Right - and the general intelligence thing is funny too because all of these companies want to hire specialists in some area, not generally intelligent people.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by weird-eye-issue on Thursday May 27, 2021 @06:27PM (#27309367)
You are making assumptions here that are incorrect. I use it when hiring virtual assistants. They don't need a specific skill.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by ericmay on Friday May 28, 2021 @04:02PM (#27319816)
I think you're just trying to justify an unjustifiable test to protect your ego.

First, if you're just hiring assistants from the Philippines they could just have someone else take the test or get around it some other way.

Second, you have no good data to support this hiring practice. You're free to use it, but it's no better than just hiring a random person from your pool of applicants. You might as well screen based on their favorite color too to just make up filtering criteria.

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by brabel on Thursday May 27, 2021 @12:49PM (#27305148)
I failed a job application because of the IQ test. It was administered in a second language for me, so I really didn't do well... the interviews had been completely smooth and I got on well with everyone I had talked with...

The thing is, I really needed that job... ended up going to another job that offered me a very low salary (I had no visa in the country , so was looking for a sponsor, which makes things a lot harder) and the company went bankrupt within a few months!

Anyway, I still got the visa, and then, with a few months to find another job with more peace of mind, I eventually got much nicer job, paying a lot more! But I still dread the though of doing an IQ test, despite my years of experience indicating I am more competent than average, at least.

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by progre on Thursday May 27, 2021 @11:22AM (#27304180)
I have never had to take a general IQ test when job hunting here in Sweden. Coding tests, yes, but not IQ.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by NalNezumi on Thursday May 27, 2021 @12:26PM (#27304895)
I had to do it twice for different companies that used the same IQ-test platform.

And most of the time it's not even proper IQ-test but only Raven Matrice test + maybe quick math tests.

Funny thing was that I did very good (apparently according to the HR person) on one of them, but did horrible enough they didn't even call back on the second test.

grids my gear why this is still a common practice in Sweden. HR in Sweden seems to be about one or two decades behind rest of the world in their efficiency.

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by Oddskar on Thursday May 27, 2021 @12:01PM (#27304601)
I would disagree. I’ve never heard of any company doing this, nor any former or current colleague that had to do one.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by moogly on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:27AM (#27303559)
Really? I'm surprised I haven't heard of that.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by linoor on Thursday May 27, 2021 @10:25AM (#27303521)
They did it a year ago when I was applying there. I was so annoyed it almost made me cancel the interview. In the end I canceled, because they didn't allow working from home.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by Rapzid on Thursday May 27, 2021 @02:57PM (#27306727)
Doesn't almost everybody? I mean let's get real here, what's the IQ distribution at FAANG or any other competitive software engineering company?

There may not be an explicit "IQ" portion to the process, or a hard number, but they are absolutely filtering on intelligence. An uncomfortable aspect of our society that I'm both surprised and not surprised doesn't get talked about much.

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by canada_dry on Thursday May 27, 2021 @12:49PM (#27305157)
When I applied to work for a bank in Canada back in the 80's I had to write a Wolfe-Spence Programming Aptitude Test (was basically an IQ test).

The hiring company would send your answer sheet and work sheets off to the company to analyze and provide a score.

Anyone else remember those?

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by yunohn on Thursday May 27, 2021 @11:08AM (#27304015)
Yep, took it just a month ago. Quite dumb honestly, not sure what it indicates. It was a bunch of weird pattern matching and guessing? Seemed easy, but got a rejection a week later.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by throwkeep on Thursday May 27, 2021 @12:03PM (#27304614)
They did that?

Although, I guess Google does IQ tests too in effect? But it's called "solve this puzzle" and "here's a riddle".

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by ericmay on Thursday May 27, 2021 @12:29PM (#27304931)
I don't think they do those anymore. At least when I've interviewed there (2x) over the last couple of years I did not encounter any of those types of questions.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by arthur_sav on Thursday May 27, 2021 @11:43AM (#27304423)
We are all mistakes that sometimes make humans.
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by sidebits on Thursday May 27, 2021 @09:55AM (#27303164)
yes
Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by philbert101 on Thursday May 27, 2021 @11:47AM (#27304476)
It's not an IQ test. It's just pattern recognition which is about 5% of the tasks you do in a real IQ test.

When I joined Klarna in 2011, the test was so easy that I joked I could score full marks on it even if I was hungover with no sleep. There was one question on the test that actually had 2 correct answers depending on what logic you applied. This was actually a real issue when recruiting, because there was a hard cut-off to make it into the engineering department, and several times I had to ask "what was their answer on question 12?"

It caused quite a bit of commotion at HR to change the official test scoring to 2 correct answers for that question.

Now the test is like a million times harder and your score at the end is between 0-10 and you have no idea how many questions you actually answered correctly. I would be very interested to know the "true" answers of these new tests to understand what kind of crazy logic you need to apply to get every question right. I'm almost certain it would take me longer to understand the answer than the time you have to do the test.

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by tremon on Thursday May 27, 2021 @11:53AM (#27304521)
It's not an IQ test. It's just pattern recognition which is about 5% of the tasks you do in a real IQ test.

So it is an IQ test, just not a comprehensive one?

Re:Klarna users are being signed in to random accounts by piva00 on Thursday May 27, 2021 @01:55PM (#27306013)
That test was always stupid and fought hard by a lot of engineers that considered it so. It was still kept even after a lot of pushback. I left the interviewing team due to that, I couldn't be part of a process that considered that step not only required but as a hard cutoff for engineers.

I lost so many great candidates that would be great hires to my teams at Klarna to that stupid test.