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Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by abdusco on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:26AM (#27274342)
One thing that bugs me is that on macOS access keys[0] are not underlined. This means I can't pick an action with the keyboard and have to use the trackpad. Anyone know how I can enable it / if that's even possible?

As a recent Mac user, I don't know if this is a mac thing, but I hate not being able to use the keyboard to navigate around the UI. Although the trackpad is nice, it can't beat the precision of the keyboard. I can't focus the menu bar, trigger a context menu with the keyboard, tab around panels and buttons. It's an accessibility nightmare.

[0]: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/uxguide/image...

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by WhyNotHugo on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @05:09AM (#27274607)
I find using macOS with a keyboard near impossible.

One of the issues is how hard it is to discover what the right keybindings are.

Second issue is that all the keymappings are different to Windows/Linux/BSD/AnythingElse.

Like, in the setup wizard when you open a new mac, hitting "return" won't move you to the next step, you have to hit tab, and then space. However, near the end of the setup process, there's a screen where tab doesn't work, and you actually DO have to use return.

I'd had carpal tunnel (and it's kind of a chronic thing), so using a touchpad to point-and-click is literally painful for me. A mouse is okay, but it seems to be impossible to connect bluetooth devices on macOS without using the touchpad.

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by acdha on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:02AM (#27276851)
> One of the issues is how hard it is to discover what the right keybindings are.

In addition the display in the menus, you can use the keyboard settings' shortcuts section to see the global keybindings and add new ones either globally or within a particular app.

There's also a pretty comprehensive version here:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236

> Second issue is that all the keymappings are different to Windows/Linux/BSD/AnythingElse.

There's a bit of early GUI history which explains most of this – MacOS was the earliest mainstream GUI and they had guidelines pretty early on which most Mac applications use. A decade or so later IBM decided they needed to create their own standard (Common User Access) which they pushed to get implemented on OS/2, Windows, and other operating systems.

Mac users continued to want what they were familiar with, and applications which were business-focused in the late 80s-90s got CUA, and a whole lot of other software got some agglomeration of whatever the developers were familiar with and/or the toolkit they were using provided by default.

> I'd had carpal tunnel (and it's kind of a chronic thing), so using a touchpad to point-and-click is literally painful for me. A mouse is okay, but it seems to be impossible to connect bluetooth devices on macOS without using the touchpad.

Two ways:

1. If it's an Apple mouse with a lightning port, plug it in once with the cable.

2. It sounds like you might not have activated the accessibility setting which toggles tab navigation from only navigating between text fields to all controls. Use Control-F7 to toggle that and then:

  1. Open settings – you can use Spotlight via Command-Space or Option + either the sound or display adjustment keys to open Settings without using a pointing device

  2. Either navigate the icons or use search to select Bluetooth

  3. Hit tab, the default focus ring will be on the “Turn Bluetooth Off” button if full control navigation mode is enabled.

  4. Hit tab, focus will now be on the devices list

  5. If your mouse is pairable, it'll show up with a connect button. Use the arrow keys to select that line and hit enter.
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by WhyNotHugo on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @08:59AM (#27434545)
Interesting bit of history, I was unaware of the details here.

A page with a list of shortcuts is terrible for discovery though. I can't open a browser all the time to try and fine if something is there (not to mention apps not listed there).

I think the solution used by others of always including it in menus and tool-tips is a lot better for discoverability.

My biggest gripe continues to be consistency though. Apps may use Cmd, Ctrl or Alt for shortcuts, with no clear pattern.

This has the added problem that it's super hard to create global shortcuts that don't overlap with any app. For example, on Linux, no apps use Cmd (Super), so you're free to bind Super+Anything for your own global shortcuts, and you'll never shadow any app. If I try using Super+w (or Ctrl+w), I'll quickly come across some app where I'm shadowing a shortcut.

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by acdha on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @11:52AM (#27436779)
This is very confusing to me: the shortcut keys are listed in the menu bar for every application. Is that somehow disabled on your system? (I'm not even sure that's possible off-hand — it's been the default going back to the 80s)

Similarly, consistency is the opposite of what I see. Every app I use uses the standard Command shortcuts. Control/Option/Shift are modifiers in some cases (e.g. Command-V pastes, Shift-Option-Command V pastes preserving style, etc.) but the only time I've seen other keys in use has been a few stragglers with deeply-engrained conventions like Emacs.

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by userbinator on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @03:43PM (#27281584)
The most perplexing one that stands out in recent memory is in the file explorer, where pressing Enter doesn't open the selected item, but begins a rename operation.
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by zapzupnz on Wednesday May 26, 2021 @12:26AM (#27286335)
Remember, on a Mac it's not an Enter key, it's a Return key. It's not used to enter a file.

On Windows, you use Ctrl-O to open a file from within an open program.

On a Mac, you use Cmd-O to open everything from everywhere; it's a universal (within Apple) convention applied consistently.

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by dom111 on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:35AM (#27274406)
I might be misremembering but isn't there a key combo ([Fn] + [Ctrl] + [F7] or something?) that enabled control selection and shows the underlines. I haven't used Mac OS for a while so I might be wrong!

Edit: I'm impressed I even remembered that! https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204434#fullkeyboard

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by wffurr on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:10AM (#27275388)
I always flip that setting on Macs. The default just seems wrong to me.
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by oneeyedpigeon on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @08:16AM (#27275919)
Whilst that is the keyboard shortcut for that setting, it doesn't appear to underline access keys.
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by dom111 on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @09:08AM (#27276328)
Ahh, I thought it did both, but that must be misremembering. A quick search indeed confirms there doesn't appear to be a way to do it... Apologies!
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by danrodney on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @11:56AM (#27278460)
On Windows I find it hard to remember random letters for accessing menu items. On macOS when a menu is active I can start typing the name of an item to go to it, which is easier for me because I remember names better than random letters. For frequent commands I learn the keystrokes.
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by sitharus on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:40AM (#27274428)
There is no Mac equivalent to this Windows feature.

You can set up a shortcut to move keyboard focus to the menu bar in Keyboard preferences under Shortcuts (in fact you can remap any application’s keyboard shortcuts there). That’s also where you can enable keyboard navigation between controls.

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by knolan on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:15AM (#27275420)
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by sitharus on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:08PM (#27285329)
That focuses the menu bar for keyboard navigation. The question was about the fast navigation keys Windows has on menu items, which has no Mac equivalent.
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by mmphosis on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @09:41AM (#27276622)
One thing that bugs me is that on Windows access keys[0] are underlined. This means I accidentally hit the ALt key all the time and some unintended action happens. Anyone know how I can disable it / if that's even possible?

As a recent Windows user, I don't know if this is a Windows thing, but I hate inconsistent keyboard navigation in the various UIs. Although the keyboard is nice, it can't beat the precision of the mouse. The unwanted focus on menu bars, the unwanted triggering of menus with the keyboard, and too many modes: tabs and panels and dialog boxes. It's an accessibility nightmare.

[0]: https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by kristiandupont on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:06AM (#27276910)
I honestly don't know if you are joking or not. MacOS is superior to Windows in many ways but this is clearly not one..
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by saagarjha on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:34AM (#27275572)
⌘? is a good way to get to the menu bar on macOS.
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by CGamesPlay on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @08:13AM (#27275892)
Not exactly what you asked for but a pretty great tip is to use Command-Shift-/ to select the search field in the Help menu, and using it as an ad-hoc command palette for all MacOS apps.
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by gholap on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @02:41PM (#27280604)
1. Disable native context menu (macOS native menus will never support access keys)[1]

2. Go to `about:config` and set `ui.key.menuAccessKey` to a custom value (I have it at 17)[2]

[1]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1711299

[2]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1711299#c5

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by abdusco on Thursday May 27, 2021 @05:22PM (#27308718)
You're a lifesaver, thank you! That was exactly what I've been looking for.

I've played around with `ui.key.menuAccessKey` before, but I needed to turn off native menu (`widget.macos.native-context-menus`) to display the access keys.

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by CyanDeparture on Wednesday May 26, 2021 @06:22AM (#27288552)
I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but the first thing I enable on a new install is tabbing between UI elements and pressing enter to use them.

If you go into System Preferences -> Keyboard -> Shortcuts (tab)

There will be a checkbox at the bottom that says 'use keyboard navigation to move focus between controls'.

This will do what it says! Hope this helps.