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Re:Why Decentralised Applications Don’t Work by bawolff on Sunday May 23, 2021 @08:33PM (#27259955)
I think that's the problem with 99% of articles about decentralized/federated/etc systems. Nobody can agree on what properties they want and everyone ends up talking past each other.
Re:Why Decentralised Applications Don’t Work by BurningFrog on Sunday May 23, 2021 @09:38PM (#27260334)
Someone needs to establish a terminology!
Re:Why Decentralised Applications Don’t Work by Taek on Monday May 24, 2021 @12:36AM (#27261109)
often times when debating another professional we'll start things off by laying out exactly how we're using each term, and for the extent of the debate we'll agree on some specific definitions, or sometimes even make up temporary nonsense words so that the debate can be productive.
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Re:Why Decentralised Applications Don’t Work by Dylan16807 on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:13AM (#27262079)
There are zero standards for this terminology, aren't there?
Re:Why Decentralised Applications Don’t Work by jcelerier on Monday May 24, 2021 @06:12AM (#27262693)
There is one standard per distributed application research paper

https://scholar.google.fr/scholar?q=distributed+application

Re:Why Decentralised Applications Don’t Work by tartoran on Sunday May 23, 2021 @08:57PM (#27260107)
Exactly that is both the strength and the weakness. The strength consists in the inability of any one party to dominate the network. The weakness is the noise and ineffectiveness of communication.
Re:Why Decentralised Applications Don’t Work by bawolff on Sunday May 23, 2021 @09:17PM (#27260232)
I think you miss my point.

Whether or not its possible for one party to dominate the network is one of the potential properties of a "distributed" system that people cannot agree on if its required in the definition.

For example, napster, TOR and IRC are arguably "distributed" systems where there is a central party that controls the network.

Re:Why Decentralised Applications Don’t Work by em-bee on Sunday May 23, 2021 @09:39PM (#27260343)
there are different definitions for being distributed.

IRC is a distributed system much like a CDN is distributed, that is spread across the network.

what we are actually interested in is distributed ownership.

email is that, as is the web, but IRC is not

Re:Why Decentralised Applications Don’t Work by lolinder on Sunday May 23, 2021 @11:16PM (#27260793)
This is exactly what OP was referring to: that's what you are actually interested in, but not everyone.
Re:Why Decentralised Applications Don’t Work by em-bee on Monday May 24, 2021 @10:55AM (#27265079)
yes of course, the article is giving examples how systems with distributed ownership are failing because not everyone cares about that. so distributed ownership is what she is interested in, and hence that is the topic of our discussion.
Re:Why Decentralised Applications Don’t Work by bawolff on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:02PM (#27269022)
That may be so, although the author's own words doesn't clearly state that ("To clarify what I mean by decentralised: applications whose main purpose is fulfilled as part of a network, where that network is not reliant on any preordained nodes." - nothing about ownership there. Master<->Master db replication meets that definition, but is petty clearly not the type of thing you are referring to. Regardless in context you're probably right abouy which definition the author is using).

Nonetheless, that doesn't make it any less of a problem that the definitions are severely overloaded. The issue is not that the article is unclear in its definitions (even though it is imo), the issue is that its hard to have discussions about the topic and compare to other articles, because people talk past each other. Words having agreed meanings is important so we can connect ideas to a broader context and not just talk about individual articles in isolation.

Re:Why Decentralised Applications Don’t Work by bawolff on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:03PM (#27269040)
Given the history of efnet, i actually think irc fits really nicely into the author's premise.
Re:Why Decentralised Applications Don’t Work by em-bee on Monday May 24, 2021 @08:47PM (#27271480)
well not quite. since nicks and channels are replicated across all servers it should be clear that any irc op can control all nicks and channels. hence control is centralized and its merely distributed-replicated on a technical level even if governance is so trusting as to allow anyone to join.

distributed ownership, aka federation does not require trust between operators as each operator is trusted only to manage their own servers without being able to control entities that originate from other servers