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Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by gentleman11 on Monday May 10, 2021 @12:10PM (#27107610)
In other words, as long as it’s the Facebook AND parents doing the surveillance, it’s okay? The concern is over the parents getting a cut of the data? My parents would never have snooped on me the way most parents try to these days, it would have freaked me out any time after turning 11 or so
Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by faitswulff on Monday May 10, 2021 @12:23PM (#27107765)
I'd love to trust that my kids are safe with technology, but the landscape for parents is way different now than it used to be, too. The grandparents left my then-toddler alone with youtube for an hour or so and I came back to my child watching some truly nightmarish videos. I can't trust the tech, so someone needs to be watching.
Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by hosh on Monday May 10, 2021 @01:47PM (#27108740)
I am a parent. I am also a technologist. I agree with that the landscape of the technology has changed drastically since I grew up in the 80s and 90s.

I don’t think I can convey to my kids the wonder of the 80s and 90s, when people were able to get a personal, general purpose computing. It was not just that every month, something new came along. There was a wide diversity of software, even among the same kind of software. People tried to write their own. Although more difficult to use, users also had a lot more power over their computing environment.

The computing landscape we have now:

- we deliberately created computing appliances in which the design of the app are driven by A/B testing, growth hacks, and dark patterns

- being able to talk with your affinity group used to mean not feeling as alone. Now, it means those are the only viewpoints you see, with algorithms feeding your view point back to you. The ancient Greek had a cautionary tale about that, called Narcissus and Echo.

- My wife is a beneficiary of online “mom” groups, and it was through there, we learned about current toys and interactions on developmental psychology. We got a Lovevry subscription, and learned about the “mental leaps”. Yet, those very things show how kids learn through interacting with objects, building neural connections in 3-d, learning through touch, smell, taste, kinesthetic and not just through sight and sound. The Montesorri method of education lets the kids choose what they are interested, but the environment is thoughtfully curated and constructed, and there is direct attention from an adult.

Algorithms are no substitute for parenting.

I first heard that from Neal Stephenson’s _Diamond Age_, but seeing how the tech landscape is now, and having a kid, that is more incisive than it had been when I first read it.

Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by lotsofpulp on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:49PM (#27109431)
> We got a Lovevry subscription, and learned about the “mental leaps”.

All that mental leap stuff is conjecture. I was unable to find any data to support it, and the person behind it (Frans Plooij) was discredited.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wonder_Weeks

I assume any claims about mental development and personalities and whatnot is bullshit. We don’t have the technology to test it, nor even the ability to properly define things in order to test them.

Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by cosmojg on Monday May 10, 2021 @12:56PM (#27108120)
Out of curiosity, was your child enjoying them? What did you find objectionable? How did the subsequent conversation with your child go?

I always wonder how I'll handle these types of situations if and when I myself become a parent. I imagine it's much more difficult in reality than it is in my head.

Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by faitswulff on Monday May 10, 2021 @01:04PM (#27108236)
My child was pre-verbal. It was a cartoon of a baby with an outlandishly large head with its mouth held open by ravens’ claws being force fed various inanimate objects like doll heads and machine engines. I shut it down within seconds of seeing it.

Answering your questions in that context is sort of ridiculous, but I’ll give it a shot:

1. At that age, my kid would watch whatever was on the screen, basically slack jawed. No bandwidth for anything else, really.

2. See above

3. There was no conversation.

And to answer your comments accusative sibling comment, my kid found it by tapping “next” repeatedly, or whatever was in the sidebar. Fwiw, I know “the phone isn’t the parent,” but the grandparents don’t have the same sensibilities around tech.

Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by spoonjim on Monday May 10, 2021 @03:24PM (#27109764)
Holy shit.
Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by CuriousSkeptic on Monday May 10, 2021 @07:41PM (#27112346)
A TED talk about these videos https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v9EKV2nSU8w
Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by afavour on Monday May 10, 2021 @01:03PM (#27108227)
The OP said the child was a toddler. Depending on the exact age I'd suspect there wasn't much of a subsequent conversation given the lack of communication skills.

Aside from that, whether the child is enjoying them or not isn't all that relevant. My kid would enjoy eating ice cream for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day but I know what's good for them better than they do.

Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by nine_k on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:29PM (#27109235)
YouTube Kids is a thing, BTW.
Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by watwut on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:53PM (#27109478)
That one misses a lot through. Pretty much none of the things I wanted to show my kids was there.
Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by fallingknife on Monday May 10, 2021 @01:12PM (#27108318)
Yes now it's totally different than all of the crazy shit we watched on the internet growing up. The world is a dangerous and degenerate place compared to the idyllic utopia of our youth.
Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by 07121941 on Monday May 10, 2021 @01:38PM (#27108638)
It's not about "sheltering" children from the trials and tribulations of real life, what they have access to is manipulative and unhealthy.

Curious what your opinions are on the epidemic of pornography use in young children.

Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by fallingknife on Monday May 10, 2021 @04:21PM (#27110441)
Well how young is young? I certainly lied on that "are you 18" question plenty of times.
Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by 07121941 on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @08:12PM (#27125195)
I think the average age is 11 for boys, that means half are under 11 when they first encounter pornography...

also read somewhere that sexual assault perpetration is occurring at younger ages.

Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by techteachtea on Monday May 10, 2021 @12:53PM (#27108076)
Web companies used to forbid accounts belonging to children under the age of 13 until what, 5-10 years ago?

I was under the impression that that was US law, so I was initially surprised at the rapid fluorishing of child accounts on nearly every service. But there seems to be a "...without parental consent" rider in our laws about data collection, and that consent is now assumed to be freely given.

Really though, children should not be using these devices to communicate or access web services unsupervised. You are the parent, not the phone.

Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by hokumguru on Monday May 10, 2021 @01:11PM (#27108315)
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/rules/rulemaking-regulatory-...

Banning children from social media has generally been an easy way to avoid the highly stringent regulations concerning data protection in the USA. The FTC doesn’t mess around with COPPA and it’s very easy to find yourself in the hole.

Re:Facebook Should Halt Instagram Kids Plan, Attorneys Gener... by prpl on Monday May 10, 2021 @12:29PM (#27107828)
Do you have kids born after ~2006?