News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by nostromo on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @10:26PM (#27058469)
War and terrorism was definitely made “more real” on LiveLeak than what you’d experience via the media or YouTube.

I also found a real appreciation for other things: driving safely, worker protections, fire safety. These “boring” things take on more importance when you can see what happens when you ignore them.

I don't think people should dwell on these morbid things. But seeing just one or two videos of, for example, a bad car crash, can really give you a healthy fear of these dangers.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by argc on Thursday May 06, 2021 @01:48AM (#27059594)
I saw someone killed on a lathe on liveleak and ever since that video I've taken tool safety EXTREMELY seriously. Like, I bought safety goggles and wear them for drilling random screws. I never even thought about it before that.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by webreac on Thursday May 06, 2021 @03:41AM (#27060217)
Sometimes, just a story is enough. I read about a father who drove over his child while backing up. He thought his child was under his wife's supervision. Since then, all my cars have the rear view camera.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by natmaka on Thursday May 06, 2021 @07:24AM (#27061604)
In China popular video channels available on popular apps (Wechat...) quite frequently stream accidents (nearly always catched by surveillance video surveillance), mainly traffic accident, sometimes work-related and even domestic violence.

The "didactic" tone is quite patent: don't jaywalk, drive and use machinery with care, use adequate protective gear...

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by jazzabeanie on Thursday May 06, 2021 @08:19AM (#27062104)
Years ago a lived with someone one who loved to watch videos of people getting hit by cars. I watched a bunch of these by proxy. The thing that still sticks in my mind is that almost none of them were jaywalking. It was almost always a car running a red light. The people that got hit put too much faith in the lights.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by reportingsjr on Thursday May 06, 2021 @10:17AM (#27063573)
It's amazing the narrative that is spun around cars and the deaths they cause.

Take a closer look at the "accident" reports you see in newspapers. It's disgusting how many times reports of people and children getting hit on sidewalks, sitting on benches, etc is spun as their fault for not getting out of the way of the person driving the car!!

There's been a bit of a grassroots push to get journalists to stop calling them accidents and start calling them crashes, so drivers aren't automatically pardoned in reader's minds.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by SamBam on Thursday May 06, 2021 @10:42AM (#27063983)
While we're at it, let's see if we can fix "officer-related shooting" too.

The most recent one I saw: "A trooper-involved fatal shooting in Leonardtown that ended in the death of a 16-year-old."

Both the "trooper-related" and the "ended in" passive voice to avoid saying "a trooper shot and killed a child."

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by natmaka on Thursday May 06, 2021 @11:22AM (#27064596)
"Children getting hit on sidewalks, sitting on benches" don't threaten anyone, and nobody calls any car driver upon them. The car driver is clearly the culprit, source of the danger.

At least in some cases (more often than not, as far as I know) a police officer is called by someone who noticed a dangerous/chaotic situation, and the officer isn't the cause of it.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/14/us/peyton-ham-maryland-tr...

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by SamBam on Thursday May 06, 2021 @11:42AM (#27064959)
Thank you for linking to the article showing that they improved the headline (possibly as a result of people pointing it out) to the significantly-better "A state trooper shot and killed.."

Are you suggesting that they shouldn't have changed it, because the kid was at fault?

"A trooper-involved fatal shooting in Leonardtown that ended in the death of a 16-year-old" could mean anything. It could mean that someone shot at a trooper, missed, and hit the kid. It could mean that a trooper shot at a dog in self-defense, and a kid was accidentally killed by the ricocheted bullet. It could even mean that someone shot at a trooper and the kid died of a heart attack from the noise.

"A state trooper shot and killed.." describes what happened. It's factual. It doesn't assign fault. If you think it creates too much of a gut-reaction that a trooper killing a 16-year-old is a problem, well, maybe that's a good thing because it suggests we should have more options to prevent that from happening. And if you think it's a good thing that the trooper shot him, well, the headline satisfies that as well.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by natmaka on Thursday May 06, 2021 @12:25PM (#27065609)
> Are you suggesting that they shouldn't have changed it, because the kid was at fault?

No. "A trooper-involved fatal shooting..." is indeed blurry, and in my opinion the active voice isn't much better because for many (most?) readers it conveys that the cop action was fully intentional, however in such a context things are much more complicated than that.

It doesn't assign fault, indeed, but a more adequate title may be "In a chaotic situation a trooper shot and killed..." because when someone points a gun at you the danger grows as you take time to assess the situation, there is no way to assess from a distance if someone is or isn't able to mount an attack, the "Tueller rule"...

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by mindslight on Thursday May 06, 2021 @04:22PM (#27068625)
The act is fully intentional. When you pick up a gun, aim it at someone, put your finger on the trigger, and pull, your intent is to kill. That's like one of the first things they tell you in any gun safety course.

That intent may have been an overreaction. It may have been a mistake. It may have been based on an incorrect understanding of the situation. It may have even been justified. But regardless, the trooper did intend to kill.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by natmaka on Thursday May 06, 2021 @09:30PM (#27070923)
Indeed, and I didn't deny it. We all call for a more objective and neutral way to concisely describe the facts. In my opinion it implies to state any pertinent element. Here: the context, which always has a major influence on intentions/choices.

My point is that a press title "In a chaotic situation a trooper shot and killed..." seems more appropriate to me. Do you agree?

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by mindslight on Friday May 07, 2021 @02:54PM (#27079501)
> the active voice isn't much better because for many (most?) readers it conveys that the cop action was fully intentional

This looks like a denial to me. And no, I don't agree that softening a factual sentence with a single sided context is more appropriate. The entire point is to stop privileging the police's perspective as if their choices are completely circumstantial, as they have been abusing that trust.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by natmaka on Friday May 07, 2021 @10:23PM (#27083130)
"THEY have been abusing that trust" seems weird to me. In my opinion SOME (not "they", meaning "all") policemen have been abusing that trust, and it makes a world of difference.

Is stating that the situation was "chaotic" privileging police's perspective (which is sourced: "Col. Woodrow Jones, the state police secretary").

Dismissing every police statement because some of them were lies may be dangerous if it leads to even more "esprit de corps" (the very cause of many of such lies) among cops, or to less good guys in the police force (they usually don't want to join a despised group).

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by mindslight on Saturday May 08, 2021 @01:49PM (#27089289)
Stating that the situation "was chaotic" discounts the agency from the actors (passive voice, yet again). If that killing was justified, then meet the bar of justification - don't explain away the situation as if the trooper isn't responsible for having created it.

I see your point about othering and it's valid even for just balancing my own views. But the larger issue is that trust in the entire institution is failing.

When you have one cop murdering someone, three more standing around watching, a entire department that doesn't arrest the murder squad, a union that protects the whole lot, and a wider community that defends the whole miscarriage of justice - you don't have "one bad cop", but rather a popular culture of corruption.

Now certainly it isn't the case that every police department has had a case like that and reacted the same way. But all too many have, and if the actual good cops want to stop their institution from being indicted with a uniform brush, then they need to start speaking up about their criminal colleagues and actually enforcing the law even when the perp is wearing a uniform.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by natmaka on Sunday May 09, 2021 @12:24AM (#27093227)
Any form (passive/active voice...) or description (especially of a wide array of attributes, for example of the context) can be interpreted in various ways, either discounting or condemning an actor.

"Chaotic", for me, conveys that there is no known way to always adequately solve this sort of problem ("911 calls ((...)) about a 'guy acting suspicious' who the callers thought had a gun"), however I reckon that interpreting it as some pseudo-justification is possible.

In a similar vein one may interpret the George Floyd case as exposing a "popular culture of corruption". One may also think that such cases have many causes, just like most major technological disasters result from a chain of causes (multiple and redundant safeties, however in some rare cases something isn't properly handled). A main cause may be that speaking up about a criminal colleague is only possible if you know for sure that he is guilty, meaning that you probably are a witness, and in such a case a colleague of the culprit. There are many reasons for teammates to cover-up each other. For example they may all be guilty of something (establishing a "popular culture of corruption"), or they may think that their colleague is guilty but should be pardoned given his merits (somewhat acting as judges). Some configurations of the rotten apple's team forbid any upper stratum (department, union, community...) to work adequately, as they will systematically amplify the testimony of those teammates.

You don't have "one bad cop", but rather a non-neglectable probability for his teammates to avoid speaking out about his reprehensible acts, and also unreasonable hopes about the ability of upper strata to attain to the truth.

In theory we may alleviate this by establishing larger teams and/or frequently changing (rotating) their members, hoping that it will reduce complicit distortions. In practice this leads to a new set of problems, not only related to cost but also to sheer practical efficiency: a team larger and/or populated with members not used to work with each other cannot be as efficient as a small (but sufficient) and more tightly made one.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by selestify on Thursday May 06, 2021 @11:36AM (#27064840)
The police officer is still very much the one who shot and killed the teen. The use of the passive voice is biased.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by salawat on Thursday May 06, 2021 @12:34PM (#27065753)
Source or example?

I have difficulty in believing anyone in their right mind would victim blame someone sitting on a bench for not getting out of the way of a car. This reeks of urban legend or motivated anti-motorist propoganda. The motor vehicle would have to have completely departed from the designated motorway and would as a result be completely at fault. Failure to respond to signal is also the motorist's fault, and even when out of compliance signalwise on a crosswalk, the pedestrian has right-of-way. It's right in the driver's manual for most States in the U.S.

Unless we're talking somewhere with much more fluid road laws. For the record, I've been that pedestrian getting clipped several times, and people on bicycles make me so paranoid in city driving, I've been known to lower windows to try to verbally communicate.

My issue is generally with other motorists for the most part.

>Automatically pardoned in reader's minds

There was a time I'd say you were over stating tilted journalism's influence. Nowadays I'm not so sure anymore.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by reportingsjr on Thursday May 06, 2021 @02:02PM (#27066995)
It's been quite a while since I read the article blaming people for sitting on the bench. Here is a kind of similar style article I came across that tries to blame people on a sidewalk for getting hurt: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/07/04/toronto_car_cras...

Notice how half of the article is dedicated towards blaming people for entering crosswalks when they have right of way, just because a signal is changing?

Here's the kicker: the 10 (!!) people injured were on the freaking sidewalk! Why is this diatribe of blaming people for entering a crosswalk even in the article??

This isn't just urban legend or anti-motorist propaganda (really? come on). There are quite a few studies out there that look in to this and it's a real phenomenon. I don't have time right now to dig out individual studies to link, but they're fairly easy to find.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by salawat on Friday May 07, 2021 @08:03PM (#27082257)
Oof. Okay. I agree that particular article could have been arranged better. For the curious.

Money shot:

>Two vehicles smashed into each other and then into a group of people and a lamp post at the intersection at about 1:20 p.m.

>According to police, both vehicles were travelling west on Lake Shore Blvd. W. when one vehicle turned left across the path of the other to proceed south on Bay St.

So the actual injuries to pedestrians were an example of collateral damage from people screwing up while behind the wheel.

The author does embark on a secondary train of thought, highlighting a bit of trivia that people may not know abouut the local traffic regulations:

>How pedestrians interpret the newer countdown-type pedestrian signals is becoming a major concern for police, said Const. Hugh Smith of traffic services. Many don’t really understand what the timer means.

>Apparently their handbook states that once the countdown starts, they assume no new pedestrians should enter the crosswalk, thereby allowing vehicles to execute turns once the initial group clears.

I didn't personally read it as blaming the pedestrians for getting hurt, as it seemed like a more Public Service Announcement sort of thing tacked on the end, but I do agree that that could have been transitioned to or arranged better.

I've just been around placeswith some fairly militant anti-motoring sentiment (like do away with all motorways type), so I assure you it is a thing. I think Britain was having some troubles with it in London, and it's growing in popularity around some urban centers in the U.S.

It tends to go hand-in-hand with zoning (which is a nightmare in and of itself), and has a great deal of impact on your ability to freely get places in the U.S., which is why I always try to be sensitive to trying to counterweight the "change it now" crowd to "incremental implementation".

I don't mind public transit, but I'm very againnst throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by putnambr on Thursday May 06, 2021 @01:12PM (#27066281)
It's not so much anti-motorist propaganda, but rather street safety advocacy to remind drivers that 'accidents' are mostly avoidable.

I don't have any news stories at the ready, but next time you see an article like 'Man, 30, dead after being hit by SUV' take a look at the comment section. I guarantee there will be multiple people asking if he was outside of a crosswalk, or noting how people need to get off their phones when walking. There's usually an absence of talking about the driver, because usually they are not mentioned apart from 'the driver stayed on scene and is cooperating with the police'. Advocates of 'crash not accident' would like the headline to be rewritten such as 'Driver hits and kills 30-year-old man with SUV'. A headline like that hopefully leads people to question whether the driver was speeding, on their phone, etc.

https://www.roadpeace.org/download/crash-not-accident-briefi...

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by stanski on Thursday May 06, 2021 @09:06AM (#27062608)
So true. Most times when I'm making a right turn and have to wait for a pedestrian to cross, I notice that they never look up. Somehow if you have the right of way, cars are magically supposed to obey that. Better to be in one piece than be right.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by AJ007 on Thursday May 06, 2021 @09:57AM (#27063260)
In consistently dangerous intersections it can actually be much safer not to cross at the crosswalk. You are basically in a situation where it is perceived as safe because you expect the cars to stop; however, if they don't stop, you are immediately in trouble with no exit.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by laurent92 on Thursday May 06, 2021 @10:05AM (#27063378)
Same effect: As a bike it is dangerous to go at the green light. If there is a gap, going at the red light makes that you can ensure all dangers are addressed; At the green light you are in the middle of the traffic, cars are turning right without seeing you, or go straight but squeeze their right, or you end up between two lanes.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by sizzle on Friday May 07, 2021 @12:31AM (#27072149)
I can’t wait till all cars use positively reinforced computer vision to slam the brakes when anticipating human impact, coupled with intelligent inferences from gps intersection coordinate, senses the red light or stop sign, lack of flow of traffic from surrounding vehicles in your direction and movement in opposite direction.

That is until we get L4(?) autonomous cars. People should not be getting hit by cars in 2021, why is this not solved yet?! C’mon car manufacturers, use your billions in revenue to solve these ‘human driver error resulting in death’ class of problems instead of distracting drivers even more by removing usable tactile buttons for affordance-less touchscreens and shaving off a few cents in production costs.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by MomoXenosaga on Thursday May 06, 2021 @04:51PM (#27068901)
No they put faith in their fellow humans. Which we all do when we're participating in traffic.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by geoduck14 on Thursday May 06, 2021 @09:02AM (#27062560)
Oh my gosh, I responded the same way.

I read a story 3 days ago. 2 days ago, I'm about to back up - but I get out of my car and look for my kid (she was safe).

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by therein on Thursday May 06, 2021 @04:03AM (#27060346)
I am pretty sure I know the video you are talking about. It is hard to unsee that kind of thing.

I think it also played a role in my purchase and use of safety goggles.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by Sebb767 on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @11:05PM (#27058728)
Especially fire safety seems like something people don't realize. Sure, the rules can seem overly strict and sometimes even nonsensical on the first glance, but it's insane how fast the situation can go from "smale flame" to "house on fire". Seeing the worst case play out is really eye-opening.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by dTal on Thursday May 06, 2021 @05:26AM (#27060872)
I don't think it was LiveLeak, but seeing the footage of the Station Nightclub fire online was enough to permanently change how I view crowds and indoor spaces. That stuff is quite scarring - but I'm grateful for the knowledge.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by stupidcar on Thursday May 06, 2021 @07:06AM (#27061489)
Agreed. After seeing that video, any time I'm in a crowded indoor space, I always make sure I take a look around for the nearest fire exit, as well as a couple of alternatives in case it is blocked.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by leetrout on Thursday May 06, 2021 @11:19AM (#27064549)
Test your smoke detectors and change your batteries. Change the entire unit after 10 years.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by sizzle on Thursday May 06, 2021 @11:26AM (#27064668)
Watching an American beheading by either drug cartels or some random Middle East country properly fucked my head up at the ripe age of 12 or 13.

I too experienced the phenomenon of feeling the media was downplaying the extent of the sheer and utter devastation that comes with war and invading countries. That video shook me good and still haunts me to this day… It made me aware of the atrocities of life and wanting to be more involved in politics to make the world a less barbaric place.

Anyone else experience this?

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by frosted-flakes on Thursday May 06, 2021 @11:56AM (#27065166)
Not from liveleak, but a couple of years ago I read an article about a guy that got stuck in a cave a few km from the entrance after falling head-first into a crevice, and eventually died because nobody could get him out. It gave me nightmares for weeks, and even to this day just thinking about it makes me shudder. It's almost PTSD, even though I only read a second-hand retelling.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by ssully on Thursday May 06, 2021 @02:38PM (#27067436)
Last year I was leaving my house to walk my dogs when my neighbors dog jumped their fence and attacked my dog. I had airpods in, so I didn't hear anything until my dog literally screamed. I was able to turn around and hold my dog steady until my neighbor hopped his fence and got his dog off.

Overall it could have been much worse; I have friends that have much worse stories. My dog had a handful of puncture wounds that healed up, and he is fine now. I am pretty sure I had PTSD or something close to it; mainly it's waking from nightmares of the scenario, and thinking of my dogs scream still makes me shudder/feel sick. I also now walk outside and check my yard before letting the dogs out and stay out there with them the entire time. My neighbor is working on getting a fence now that the spring is here, but even then I don't know if I will leave the dogs out alone. It was a minor encounter with violence, but it was enough to shake me up and change some habits.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by sizzle on Friday May 07, 2021 @03:03PM (#27079633)
Having experienced this far too many times (dogs jumping fences!) I now carry a few compressed air devices (“Pet Convincer” is a repurposed CO2 tire inflator that blasts air) to scare off-leash dogs away without hurting your dog accidentally via other less humane methods (pepper spray, tazer, etc).

Keep your dogs on a leash in public people!

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by NortySpock on Thursday May 06, 2021 @11:49AM (#27065080)
Not quite as rough as you had it, but growing up with parents in the medical field, they could and would easily recount all the nasty injuries and deaths they had seen in accidents (or homicides).

Suffice to say I am firmly in favor of wearing safety equipment even for "simple" jobs, and trying to avoid pissing people off.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by kebman on Thursday May 06, 2021 @07:14AM (#27061546)
I remember seeing that video of American special forces being shot down in Africa. I did my due in the army myself, but thankfully I never saw combat. I do know a lot of vets, tho, and... they've all got PTSD and many of them are in a very bad shape. After seeing that video, I've been even more thankful. For me it serves as a clear warning that joining the army isn't all glory, even if you're fighting for "the right side" or the most powerful army in the world. Also if the war is on the other side of the world, perhaps ask yourself if this is something you'd really like to give your life for.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by tfp137 on Thursday May 06, 2021 @10:17AM (#27063583)
The "other side of the world" wars are mostly fought by the young, because they haven't developed enough skepticism to ask whether what they're being asked to do benefits the country as a whole, or only certain actors and industries. The old and rich start wars, the young and poor fight them.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by pasabagi on Thursday May 06, 2021 @11:34AM (#27064811)
The old, rich, and stupid. One of the things that has been blowing my mind recently is the awareness of how many wars happen as a result of accident, miscommunication, and institutional inertia. The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour started off as a hypothetical 'how could we win a potential war with the US', then over time, gained so much momentum that even though its principal architect thought it was a very bad idea, and although it was obviously not in Japan's national interest, it ended up going ahead.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by kebman on Thursday May 06, 2021 @05:13PM (#27069110)
Wasn't there a whole ordeal with competing entities, even within national organizations and army branches, who were all zealously entrenched in their own little jurisdictions?
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by pasabagi on Thursday May 06, 2021 @09:22PM (#27070872)
That too - but that's present in any state. Japan just had the weirdest combination of resting all authority in the emperor, while having a strong tradition of the emperor never exercising any practical authority. So you get stuff like the creation of a puppet state in Manchuria essentially against the will of the Japanese prime minister.

I think the basic structure of a leader that theoretically has absolute power, but practically speaking is a kind of empty suit, is actually pretty generalizable and common. Japan is an extreme example, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Iraq war was the result of a similar combination of institutional momentum and leadership vacuum[0].

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by BrandoElFollito on Friday May 07, 2021 @09:17AM (#27075520)
> I did my due in the army myself

I am not a native speaker of English so my apology if the question sounds strange: but does that mean that you feel that you owe your country some time spent in the army? ("I served in the army as everyone else" vs "I was employed in the army because of my choice").

Your last sentence rather points to the former but I wanted to make sure.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by nirui on Thursday May 06, 2021 @07:25AM (#27061616)
> These “boring” things take on more importance when you can see what happens when you ignore them.

Couldn't agree more.

When I was a 7 years old, a road near my home was undergo an expansion. The work involves a lots of heavy and big machines, including heavy trucks etc. During that time, me and almost all other kid was warned to not go near those machines, "Don't play near those things, it's dangerous". But none of us knows why, so none of us listened, at least not carefully.

Many years later, after I've grow up and start to understand the value of lives, one day I stumble upon a video showing a middle school aged student ridding a bike down a road, and got crashed by a turning lorry. And the lorry driver didn't even notice the student until a terrified security guard yelled him to stop. That kid was crashed at the left abdomen, then the wheel rolled over his chest and head, all with in 3 seconds of time.

That moment is when I suddenly remembered the warning that I got almost 20 years ago: Don't play near those things, it's dangerous. Everything is so real now, because it is, it's just that I didn't receive it at it's full meaning back then, and that video, completed it.

Video like those really works, because now you saw it with your own eyes. You feel the brutality without a layer of filter, and without even a slight distortion, and then you know it for real.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by u801e on Thursday May 06, 2021 @12:26PM (#27065633)
> Many years later, after I've grow up and start to understand the value of lives, one day I stumble upon a video showing a middle school aged student ridding a bike down a road, and got crashed by a turning lorry

Unfortunately, this is a relatively common way for cyclists to die. The easy way to prevent it is to never try to pass a truck/lorry near an intersection.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by nirui on Friday May 07, 2021 @01:14AM (#27072442)
What most shocking fact it, the driver didn't even notice the poor kid. The blind spot that people constantly talking about is real and many people lose their life to it.

Sad thing is, most people I know don't know about anything of it, they still assumes that the driver will take care of everything.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by putnambr on Thursday May 06, 2021 @01:23PM (#27066442)
Even if there's a car ahead of a lorry at a red light, I'll stick a few feet behind the lorry until I can pass it mid-block. Big truck drivers have so much to pay attention to while city driving, it's easy to forget that cyclists exist.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by praptak on Thursday May 06, 2021 @02:36AM (#27059865)
I remember they used to show bad car crashes as part of the training you could take to reduce the number of penalty points (Polish road code, accumulate 24, lose your driving license). My colleague, who was a bit of a petrolhead, took it. It made him drive safe(r) at least for a few weeks.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by throwaway0a5e on Thursday May 06, 2021 @09:21AM (#27062806)
Safety is in bad company these days because it's so often (I'd say 10:1, probably even 100:1) presented by people who have ulterior self serving motives (typically they have no skin in the game and are just in it for the virtue points).

It's one thing to have a driver's ed instructor, your plant manager or someone else in a position of authority who presumably knows what they're talking about and has at least some semblance of skin in the game show you those things and lecture you about safety.

Listening to a bunch of Redditors and HNers and Youtube commenters, etc, etc. grandstand nonstop about safety, safety, safety, safety, even when the relevance of and pretext for such grandstanding is very flimsy is counterproductive.

You can't post about <subject> on the internet these days without some jerk swooping in and making some borderline irrelevant comment about safety in order to score cheap virtue points which then derails everything. Heck, just discussing it at the work lunch table there's a 50-50 chance the same derailment happens in real life.

Being told you need to worry about not electrocuting yourself when changing a tire on Prius or you need to worry about carbon monoxide when lighting a single candle doesn't make people care about safety. It rightly makes them annoyed and suspicious.

Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by whydoibother on Thursday May 06, 2021 @12:57PM (#27066095)
What a strange and cynical view to hold. Maybe people talk about safety out of a genuine care of others? Or maybe they are into doing things safely and like to share that.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by jobigoud on Thursday May 06, 2021 @02:50AM (#27059931)
Here as part of the process to regain your points they made you visit a hospital where car crash patients were treated.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by praptak on Thursday May 06, 2021 @04:10AM (#27060396)
That sounds effective but how do they deal with patients' privacy? Do patients have the option of not being made a showcase?
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by dmos62 on Thursday May 06, 2021 @04:31AM (#27060522)
"Do you mind if this bad driver visits you?"
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by orthoxerox on Thursday May 06, 2021 @05:37AM (#27060938)
It probably reduced the number of penalty points the patients themselves had.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by op00to on Thursday May 06, 2021 @06:16AM (#27061163)
My American school in the 1990s showed “Signal 30” in Driver’s Education class, a gruesome documentary film from the 60s showing deceased, disfigured victims in automobile accidents. Totally messed up to show kids that.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by ticviking on Thursday May 06, 2021 @07:54AM (#27061875)
I think it is rather more messed up to give teens the power to create such horrors without first making them confront what exactly a car can do.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by op00to on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @07:35AM (#27129096)
Teenagers are not emotionally developed enough to take lessons from movies like that. We laughed and then drove like assholes.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by san-fran on Thursday May 06, 2021 @09:50AM (#27063171)
About ten years later also in America, our Driver's Education documentary was called "Red Asphalt".
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by wobblykiwi on Thursday May 06, 2021 @10:46AM (#27064034)
Yup, saw the same thing around 2010 in my Driver's Ed class.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by CalRobert on Thursday May 06, 2021 @03:36AM (#27060189)
It's weird that phrasing the reality of it is considered distasteful. "Child killed in collision with vehicle" is sanitary. "Driver smashes child's brain with their bumper" less so. Yet we might not let drivers get away with killing 40,000 people a year in the US if we spoke clearly about it.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by putnambr on Thursday May 06, 2021 @01:25PM (#27066461)
Road safety advocates have been lobbying journalists to use 'crash not accident' for years. Even here on HN many people shoot that down as anti-motorist. People like their cars/trucks and don't like being reminded of their danger and responsibility.
Re:LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online by tarsinge on Thursday May 06, 2021 @03:45AM (#27060237)
Yes I think a few videos is enough. I still have images in my head kind haunting me but like you said it’s a good thing. Same with animal condition (don’t know if you find that here). But more than that I wouldn’t play with the psychological consequences.