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Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by ghaff on Friday April 23, 2021 @09:11AM (#26914388)
I used to be somewhat skeptical of the convenience claim. A former colleague argued that the attraction of Napster was more about convenience than price which I didn't really buy.

But if we look at the popularity of streaming services today versus owning even DRM-free music, that would seem to support the convenience theory. (It hasn't taken off for books to the same degree but I'd guess that's in part because the vast majority of people just don't consume enough to make an all you can eat offering work.)

As perhaps both cause and effect, there's probably also something of a generational shift in which ownership of stuff you can put your hands on may just not be as appealing to many younger people, especially if they're urban dwellers without a lot of space.

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by ademup on Friday April 23, 2021 @09:20AM (#26914458)
Owning music is made much more difficult now that the ability to use it has been greatly diminished. Many new cars don't even come with CD players. Sure, there are work arounds, but I think that moves us beyond a measure of "convenience".
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by ghaff on Friday April 23, 2021 @09:24AM (#26914501)
>>the ability to use it has been greatly diminished

Really? I have tons of music ripped from CDs on my iPhone and I can trivially play that in my car. I have CD players in my car (which I never use) and attached to my stereo (which I rarely use). It's not that the ability to play CDs (or rip them and play them) has been diminished but a lot of people prefer to just use a streaming service.

I'll grant that many people don't have a CD player even on their computer any longer but you can buy one for not much money online and have it in a couple days if you want one.

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by fsflover on Friday April 23, 2021 @09:50AM (#26914741)
> I have tons of music ripped from CDs

Are you suggesting that it's a simple and convenient thing to do for the public?

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by vladvasiliu on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:58AM (#26915386)
But ripping CDs is not the only way of "owning" the media.

As another commenter said [0], you can buy and own media without ever touching a physical medium or waiting for the post service to deliver it.

I seem to remember at one point Apple was offering DRM-free music. This is pretty convenient for everybody. Yes, you have to buy it ahead of time and store it, as opposed to just streaming right away.

But it does seem quite easy to me. Go to the iTunes store, click buy, done. It may even sync automatically to your iPhone, so you can play it in your car, just as you would Spotify.

---

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26914754

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by ocdtrekkie on Friday April 23, 2021 @01:47PM (#26917251)
They still do, Apple's MP3s are DRM-free, and you can download them with the iTunes desktop client. Another super handy way: Amazon.

Amazon's MP3 download store is DRM-free, but also, Amazon has an "Auto-Rip" feature that means often when you buy the physical music CD, they immediately give you the ability to download the MP3s for free. You get the real purchase of physical media, and the convenience of instant access.

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by benfrancom on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:29PM (#26919961)
If you bought Apple's MP3's when they had DRM, you can't get them without it. (Maybe if you re-purchase it?). At least I can't access DRM free music that I purchased initially with DRM.
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by ocdtrekkie on Saturday April 24, 2021 @03:21PM (#26927555)
Yeah, that sounds like some contractual nonsense. Similar to how Play Family Sharing only applies to apps bought after they rolled it out.
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by burnsomecds on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:10AM (#26914949)
Yeah? Didn't we all burn mixed CDs to trade as kids? Most cars have an aux plug, and there are still standalone mp3 players with a drag and drop interface

Shoot, almost ten years ago I ripped my dad's CDs and put them all on a SanDisk mp3 player. He's almost certainly just using it as is.. I'd have to ask, but his music taste has been set for thirty years; he doesn't need to put anything new on it, ever.

All he needs to know how to do is unplug it from the stereo and plug it into the jack in the car.

What's hard here?

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by lotsofpulp on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:02AM (#26914877)
That supports ghaff’s original point. It’s far more convenient to stream music than deal with CDs period.

Automakers didn’t remove CD players despite people wanting them. They did it because enough customers were not willing to pay a premium to have the CD player. I would rather have a larger screen for CarPlay, and I’m betting most people who use streaming apps/MP3s would too.

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by oarsinsync on Friday April 23, 2021 @05:15PM (#26919287)
> I would rather have a larger screen for CarPlay, and I’m betting most people who use streaming apps/MP3s would too.

CarPlay and touch screens generally are one of the worst 'innovations' that have happened in cars in recent decades, as far as road safety goes.

In the past, I would have a CD that had 5-10 albums on it, and could easily flip between them without taking my eyes off the road. I could glance up at the sleeve on my sun shade to find a different CD to switch to, and easily switch the CDs around and navigate the rest of the process by feel alone.

Now I have to pull over to change albums in a reliable (siri is unreliable and doesn't work with all apps) and safe manner.

It's an improvement as far as how much total music I have access to on any given journey. Does that convenience justify even one additional life lost as a result of a distracted driver? As a society, we have very loudly screamed ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY, which, like GP notes, is a real fucking shame.

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by redwall_hp on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:21AM (#26915040)
Yes...all you had to do with iTunes was insert a disc and click a button. After a couple of minutes, the tracks would all be in your library with metadata pulled from the internet. Everyone I knew who had a computer used to duplicate CDs for their car and make mixes.
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by mywittyname on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:32AM (#26915152)
looks at laptop

Hmmm...

looks at old laptop

Hmmm...

looks at ipad, iphone

Hmm...Oh, I know!

looks at gaming PC

Nope. I don't have a disk drive on a computer and haven't for several years now. Sure, I could get one, but optical drives have been optional equipment for a while now.

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by ghaff on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:53AM (#26915323)
It's optional because you, like many, don't rip/play CDs/DVDs any longer. You'd have one if you had a use for it. I'm guessing you have peripherals attached to one or more of your computers that I consider optional.
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by ghaff on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:12AM (#26914963)
Streaming is more convenient for most people. Ripping is as simple as it was 20 years ago when much of the general public had no trouble doing so. It’s just that there are simpler alternatives that weren’t available then.
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by drewzero1 on Friday April 23, 2021 @11:25AM (#26915686)
Are you suggesting that it's not? Maybe I'm out of touch with both the state of technology and the general public (guilty on both counts), but last I checked major operating systems all came with CD ripping software included. Do people really not have CD drives any more or something?
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by ghaff on Friday April 23, 2021 @11:28AM (#26915725)
A fair number of people probably don't have CD drives any longer given you generally don't need them to install software. But you can buy one on Amazon for < $20 so that's certainly not a huge barrier for people who want to.
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by SirSourdough on Friday April 23, 2021 @11:51AM (#26915988)
It seems like a lot more people have laptops only these days and most new laptops don’t have a CD drive. Neither my 2013 MBP or the desktop I built in 2018 have a CD drive and I’ve never needed one with the desktop and haven’t used one with the laptop since a year or two after I bought it. They are basically phased out for computing purposes it seems.
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by crocsarecool on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:41PM (#26920090)
Shoot, in the late 90’s I feel like everyone was ripping and burning CDs not just the savvy ones.
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by detaro on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:34AM (#26915168)
What device are you using that allows you to stream music but can't play from audio files you bought? I don't find the difference between spotify and MP3s that large.
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by michaelmrose on Friday April 23, 2021 @02:11PM (#26917488)
Alternatively you could just download everything you wanted to listen to for the last 30 years.
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by sixothree on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:24AM (#26915064)
I have Netflix, Prime, Hulu, Spotify, sometimes Youtube TV, OTA via TIVO. Trust me, TPB is much more convenient.
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by SirSourdough on Friday April 23, 2021 @12:01PM (#26916119)
I think it depends on your viewing habits. If you decide what content you want to watch and then seek it out, you might have a tougher time finding what you want with all the streaming services segregating content.

But if you start by opening a streaming service and browse from there I don’t really think there’s any contest between the high-quality exploration and experience of eg Netflix vs the glorified spreadsheet browsing that is TPB and all the gotchas that go along with downloading random torrents...

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by ghaff on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:50AM (#26915293)
I can be streaming just about anything purchased/rented a la carte from Amazon in a couple of minutes. It costs more but I don't see how that's less convenient than TPB.
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by andrewprock on Friday April 23, 2021 @02:27PM (#26917623)
The primary challenge with today's streaming services is determining which platform the content is on, and what tier you need to have to consume the content.

In that way, Amazon Video is one of the most convenient platforms as it has more content than many other platforms, though you may need to pay a rental fee.

When it comes to convenience, for me unified access to the most content trumps most other issues.

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by sixothree on Friday April 23, 2021 @03:09PM (#26918054)
I have to add that I do have one other streaming service I did not list and that is Formula 1 TV.

And I think this is an incredible example of value that can be added to television. During an event you can watch live video footage from the main feed, any of the 20 cars on the track, or the pit straights. You can listen to team radios, commentary, or just engine audio.

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by olyjohn on Friday April 23, 2021 @03:14PM (#26918103)
Assuming it's on Amazon...

What do you do when the show you want to watch is not on there? What do you do when it's a Hulu Exclusive? Or a Netflix show?

You know what I do? Search for 'movie/show name' + 'torrent' and I pull down the rip at 10MB/sec, and have it in a few minutes. Faster than signing up for another service, installing the app on all of my devices, connecting that app up to my account, adding my credit card, then paying for it. Then having to discontinue that subscription later when I decide there's nothing else on that service I want to watch. Then you realize, you paid for 1 month of service, just to watch one show... ridiculous.

Streaming is only convenient when you are already subscribed to the service. Otherwise piracy is much easier. Plus I don't get my fucking videos downsampled to 720p because I choose to watch in a web browser on a Linux box.

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by sixothree on Friday April 23, 2021 @03:23PM (#26918204)
I'm not really concerned about cost.

I like to be able to use my laptop to locate content and then watch it on a television. So my habits mostly include YouTube or TPB. With youtube I can queue a number of items into a playlist. For TPB, I just press the magnet and it appears on my television a short while later.

I mean I intend to continue paying for these services since I like the offerings. I just don't like using them. They're all ugly and annoying, and they each have their quirks I need to learn. Discovery sucks and searching is always slow and painful. I just don't care to deal with it.

Plus, every time someone mentions a show you have to have this extra little conversation about what streaming service it's available on. It's annoying and I really don't want to care.

Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by freebuju on Sunday April 25, 2021 @06:39AM (#26931728)
If you think TPB is the holy grail of convenience, then you haven't tried a service like real-debr1d with kodi. I've been a pirate for many years, nothing beats this combination if the objective is to stream whatever movie/show your heart desires on demand.
Re:Apple is sued for telling you that you're “buying” movies by kdmdmdmmdmd on Friday April 23, 2021 @12:34PM (#26916456)
Your opinion on convenience is not relevant to this case.