News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by lottin on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @03:18AM (#26886363)
The fact that something is scarce doesn't make it a store of value. Scarce simply means is in short supply, but prices aren't determined by supply alone, they are determined by supply and demand. Moreover, if an asset is in fixed supply, then its price is determined entirely by the demand. This means such an asset will only be a store of value if the demand for the asset remains strong over a long period of time, which is something the asset issuer/producer has zero influence on.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by throwaway_isms on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @05:01AM (#26887021)
The money behind big tech has mastered manipulating demand and that is exactly what you are seeing in the Ethereum/NFT ecosystem.

It is one giant fraud bankrolled by unlimited capital that can artificially increase prices at which point there becomes demand from people in fear of missing out, once the early capital has the suckers locked in the prices plateau at first as the capital stops buying and driving the price up, and then begins a steep crash as they cash out and lock in the gains, this only causes fear and panic among the late entries that made investments at the peak which they couldn't afford to lose...rinse and repeat.

The NFTs may be even more blatant and egregious than the ERC20 coins in terms of fake sales driving up interest, media and demand for shit no regular investor will ever flip. A lot of it is just transparent fraud and money laundering, with the people involved not even shying away from it but openly justifying it on the basis they feel the stock market and art collectors have always engaged in the same misconduct.

Take Elon Musk, openly pumping Doge...I'm not judging, I get the humor in it, but a lot of people have been crushed over the years in the crypto bubbles, yesterday was a prime example where Elon was likely the sole cause of Doge exploding in value (maybe 5x in a few days and 100x over a month) and as the big money way slowly cashing out these massive media campaigns were behind a marketing scam of "DogeDay" essentially making their killing on the backs of the poor uneducated late investors. One would hope his Tweets shined a bright light on the dystopia of it all, but it seems everyone is either so greedy or in such bad positions financially they would rather take part.

My guess is now that they have reaped their profits at the expense of the little guy, they will buy back in with the profits and we should see another pump following the -25% DogeDay scam.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by nmfisher on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @05:26AM (#26887191)
I struggle to have any sympathy for "the little guy".

Noone's lying to them, noone's defrauding them, noone's stealing anything or embezzling from them.

It's just greed, plain and simple. If you pile into a get-rich-quick scheme but end up holding the bag in, then more fool you.

I still think it should probably be regulated to prevent idiots from losing their life savings. But I won't pretend the losers are ethically any different from the winners. No matter whether you're early or late to the party, you're all just hucksters looking for a quick buck from a pump-and-dump.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by jl2718 on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @09:02AM (#26889101)
This is such a simplistic view of “the little guy”. The dollar system is set up such that they have to ‘invest’ or else they will never be able to afford a house. Savings will bankrupt them. Stocks are meaningless, just handing your money to rich people that will never give it back in hopes that you can sell it for more later. But the whole system looks like it’s in free fall, so that doesn’t seem likely. Crypto would have zero value if normal people weren’t scared and distrustful. I can’t recall a market mania that didn’t start with massive rises in home prices.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by matheusmoreira on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @11:43AM (#26891132)
> Crypto would have zero value if normal people weren’t scared and distrustful.

That implies cryptocurrencies provide no value by themselves and is simply false. Ethereum is essentially a distributed virtual machine that anyone can pay to use. Monero offers complete financial privacy.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by brazzy on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @01:51PM (#26893079)
>Ethereum is essentially a distributed virtual machine that anyone can pay to use.

...that is unbelievably slow, limited, difficult to use, and makes it impossible to fix bugs.

It's absolutely fascinating in principle, yes. But in practice it's a solution in search of a problem.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by matheusmoreira on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @01:55PM (#26893148)
> that is unbelievably slow, inefficient, and makes it impossible to fix bugs

I don't dispute that. The real innovation lies in the decentralization. Unfortunately, decentralization is threatened by centralized mining operations who resist changes to the network such as migration to proof of stake. Bitcoin also suffers from the same problem with miners effectively controlling the protocol and as a result the coin has remained static for a long time.

Monero seems to be having success avoiding the influence of miners. They adopted ASIC and GPU resistant algorithms which makes it viable to mine XMR on normal CPUs, allowing more people to participate and as a result making the coin more decentralized.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by jl2718 on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:05PM (#26893270)
I’ll be the first one to say that crypto is often the superior system. But only due to the threat. A threat I happen to believe is very dangerous. Any security model only has value in the presence of a threat model. Other than that it’s just inefficient.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by matheusmoreira on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:27PM (#26893566)
Indeed. The threat is real and will continue to be real for as long as governments exist. Maybe the threat is centralized authorities in general.

My country experienced runaway inflation in the 1990s. In a desperate attempt to stop it, the president just froze everyone's bank accounts. The government took away everyone's money out of nowhere. So I don't really care how much energy cryptocurrency consumes. If it puts an end to government stupidity it's worth it. The more they hate cryptocurrency the better -- it means they can't control it.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by rideontime on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @01:42PM (#26892959)
What sort of operations are people running on the Ethereum VM?
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by imtringued on Thursday April 22, 2021 @04:39AM (#26900323)
I've seen interest bearing crypto accounts. You can get 6% APY on stablecoins. Any project that promises you more than that is calculating APY for the current day or hour. 40% APY for less than a single day is just misleading advertisement.

Although I am generally against cryptocurrencies, I cannot be against the idea of building a decentralized banking system (cryptocurrencies are merely cash). I mean, if we get to do it with fiat, they surely deserve to do it with their cryptocurrencies.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by matheusmoreira on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @01:52PM (#26893084)
Currently the smart contract software projects are focused on decentralized finance since the only input necessary for that is ETH currency. New tokens, decentralized exchanges and so on.

People created Chainlink to bring real world data inputs to Ethereum software. Data such as "package has arrived to its destination". It hasn't delivered on its promise yet unfortunately. If it ever does, all bets will be off.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by throwaway_isms on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:42PM (#26893782)
I have multiple decentralized websites and even a search engine on IPFS (the p2p web3 protocol)
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by imtringued on Thursday April 22, 2021 @04:33AM (#26900292)
>The dollar system is set up such that they have to ‘invest’ or else they will never be able to afford a house. Savings will bankrupt them.

This is what happens when inflation is low, yet people consider inflation the devil. If the Fed could actually hit inflation goals this whole farce would be over. We'd be at the end of the long term debt cycle and a whole lot of fake value would disappear into thin air and after all the bad debt and bad companies have been cleaned up, there would be enough room for productive companies.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by anonymouse008 on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @12:46PM (#26892045)
>It's just greed, plain and simple.

Seeing someone pay off their student loans or their credit cards on an income similar or lower than yours by “investing” in a ICO at the right time and trying to find the next opportunity is greed to you?

I’d say the little guy is desperate to get out underneath whatever has them in dire straights to reasonably think a “gamble” as rational.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by rmah on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @12:51PM (#26892140)
Are you asserting that lower income people cannot be as greedy as higher income people?
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by throwaway_isms on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:50PM (#26893899)
The common definition of greed would be the selfish desire of more than one needs, the "little guy" by definition that us taken by investment scams or mass Crypto pump and dump scams usually isn't seeking more than they need, but in such a desperate and dire financial and economic position they are usually just attempting to gain some footing to put them on level ground. At the end of the day the scams exist because they work, whether you blame it on their the greed of the victim or it is just an act of desperation is irrelevant, the conduct that can and should be regulated is that of the scammers.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by lashloch on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @01:06PM (#26892392)
Greed is the desire to accumulate wealth for its own sake. I don't think it makes sense to characterize a low-income person as greedy for trying to improve their situation somewhat.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by throwaway_isms on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @05:34AM (#26887273)
>It's just greed, plain and simple.

I get that position, but it is a lot more than greed...or maybe a lot less.

It is uneducated investors that see something they don't understand that is unregulated, easily accessible and being marketed to them in ways they should be considered lying and defrauding.

Again the fact that you have a CEO of a publicly traded company constantly Tweeting Doge to the Moon...its easy to say well you bought in thats just greed, fine, but its dystopian as hell.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by aaroninsf on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @12:50PM (#26892131)
Since 1971 essentially all gains in wealth in the first world have been captured by the very wealthy, who have enjoyed an acceleration feedback loop between their capture of wealth, and capture of government, hence all effective means on checking that accumulation.

Any analysis that does not start with this is either complicit, intentionally or merely because the author has enoyed incidental residual benefit; or ignorant.

There is no mystery why there is an aura of mingled desperation, FOMO, and nihilism; to focus on the "greed" is to ignore what is animating Hail Mary attempts to finding a short path to stability, is that every traditional long path has been quietly consistently dismantled.

Better crypto than Q. But it won't stop what's coming.

What's coming is dramatically increased domestic unrest driven by the attempt to use the technologies so many here are helping build, to keep a pressure lid on and further the devolution into a two-class society.

Enjoying the dregs of the 1%? Set the autopilot for Mars, just don't take your hands off the wheel.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by skybrian on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @12:42PM (#26891992)
Another thing to keep in mind is that people can gamble for fun while knowing their limits. At least with GameSpot, reporters didn’t seem to be finding ordinary investors in significant financial trouble?

Sometimes the gambling is aggressively dumb but the marks still walk away pretty much okay, like someone who had a fun time losing money on rigged carnival games.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by inter_netuser on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @05:16AM (#26887130)
There are people who have been bankrupted by rugpulls and sharp selloffs. All of this is just going to invite more regulation and completely strangle the industry.

As usual, the greediest have to ruin it all for the rest of us.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by spinny on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @05:21PM (#26895596)
100% agree. ERC20 have matured to the point where some valuable projects actually exists. There is probably some shady business around NTFs today and the non-shady business portion of the market is very small.

imho, NFTs have lots of potential to facilitate purchase and sell of real world items (buy a car with a USDC transaction to a smart contract). This is the NFT "killer app" to me

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by throwaway_isms on Thursday April 22, 2021 @01:04PM (#26905107)
Not sure why you were downvoted on this comment.

The city of Miami is putting together a investigating committee/task force to see how public services can incorporate blockchain.

I think it will be implemented, not at the City but the County level, for recording property Deeds. Though 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, its anyone's guess.

The NFT killer app, the writing is on the wall and it will be stocks/stock exchange.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by asenna on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @07:54AM (#26888399)
You're right, prices are determined by supply and demand but that's exactly what this article is about.

Ethereum has always had demand (due to the growing ecosystem of DeFi, NFT, etc) but the supply was arbitrary.

What's coming with EIP-1559 fixes this by directly linking the supply (or rather burning of tokens) to the demand of the network.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by dmihal on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @06:47AM (#26887769)
Exactly, Ethereum is a better Store of Value than Bitcoin, not only because it is scarce, but because it provides utility, which creates demand.

People need ETH for:

* Paying transaction fees to use the network. For example, Visa is now settling payments with card issuers using USDC on Ethereum, so Visa needs to pay these fees with ETH.

* Collateral in financial applications: Over 11 million ETH (over $24 billion) have been locked as collateral in various financial protocols

* Staking & validating: In the same way that Bitcoin miners must purchase mining hardware to earn money, Eth2 validators must purchase ETH to earn staking rewards

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by CyberDildonics on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:51PM (#26895278)
Utility? The transaction fees are around $30 USD now.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by imtringued on Thursday April 22, 2021 @04:41AM (#26900340)
Presumably someone receives more than $30 in value from these transactions, otherwise they wouldn't be willing to pay them.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by CyberDildonics on Thursday April 22, 2021 @07:27AM (#26901502)
No one is contradicting a basic tautology like that.

What do you think people are using those transactions for? The average transaction value is of $5,000 USD.

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactionvalue-eth.ht...

Do you think people are making these transactions for anything other than speculation? You said value, I said utility.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by dmihal on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @07:03PM (#26896493)
Fees are a function of supply & demand.

High fees means there's tons of demand to use the chain.

Yes, it sucks for small users who are priced-out, but scaling solutions such as rollups should be launching within the next few weeks.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by CyberDildonics on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @08:43PM (#26897281)
It isn't small users who are priced out so much as almost every use case other than speculation.

Anything that does not allow more transaction throughput doesn't help.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by gverrilla on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @05:54PM (#26895931)
Imo ETH is not a better store of value than bitcoin today because of hashpower supremacy and therefore security btc enjoys. Even when ethereum goes full on PoS, it will still be dependant on bitcoin.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by ObserverNeutral on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @07:37AM (#26888237)
No.

The greatest motivation for Crypto success are hatred and fear.

BTC is succeeding because people hate/fear Central Banks printing money , so people love BTC and hate Central Banks.

Ethereum doesn't put itself up against the printing of money but against companies instead. Google, Apple, Spotify etc. People don't hate those companies and to the extent that they do....they manifest their hate by asking Government to tax them more, not migrating to a super hard to use and super costly decentralized platform to undercut their power. The consumer doesn't think in those terms.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by asenna on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @08:11AM (#26888549)
If you think the point of decentralized systems are to ONLY replicate Google / Apple / Spotify services but in a decentralized manner, then you're mistaken.

When the internet came along, it wasn't to only replicate the Post-office or to just make mails faster. The internet enabled a lot of things you couldn't even predict at that time (or perhaps some could, if they truly understood the tech).

There are lots of things that the blockchain enables that you just cannot do in the traditional world even today. Couple of examples:

- You can use your tokens as collateral, borrow stablecoins and pay off your mortgage while the loan pays itself off from the interest being generated by the collateral - you do not have to pay back the loan => https://alchemix.fi/

- (Borrowed from another user in this thread) Flash loans provide the ability to atomicly borrow infinite money for the duration of a transaction, with no collateral or credit. This money can be used for arbitraging or just to provide working capital for a complex operation. If the loan isn't repaid by the end of the transaction, the whole transaction is cancelled. => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCJUhnXQ76s

There's clearly going to be a lot more use-cases in the future. Finance is only the first field which is getting explored at the moment.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by dmihal on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @08:08AM (#26888514)
People hate Robinhood after they blocked users from trading. Decentralized exchanges like Uniswap are impossible to shut down.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by ur-whale on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @03:24AM (#26886399)
>they are determined by supply and demand

You are correct, but only in theory: this requires the precondition that people are rational economic actors.

In practice, people are weird, and the scarcity of supply creates a demand.

There is therefore a weird feedback loop between the supply and the demand, and scarcity alone is enough to create "value".

Examples:

    - Beanie babies

    - Magic the gathering cards

    - Pokemon cards

    - Baseball cards

    - DaVinci paintings (where anyone can have an 8k x 8k exact reproduction, but the original is worth a fortune)

    - etc...
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by runeks on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @03:28AM (#26886417)
> There is therefore a weird feedback loop between the supply and the demand, and scarcity alone is enough to create "value".

Yes. Temporarily. And a much less weird feedback loop is enough to annihilate all of this “value” at some later point in time (the “crash”).

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by randomsearch on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @03:42AM (#26886503)
A good example of this is stamp collecting. A grandparent carefully collected stamp albums for his grandchildren. They are now pretty much worthless, because the fashion for stamp collecting has gone. I hope he enjoyed the process of collecting.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by ForHackernews on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @03:49AM (#26886542)
Is that true? Time to buy the dip in stamps!

Then, I can issue NFTs for my old stamps.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by pjanoman on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @03:30AM (#26886438)
Scarcity alone is definitely not enough to create value. The one piece of artwork I've made in my life is a scarce resource, but that doesn't mean I have people buying it up like its an NFT.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by Veen on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:29AM (#26886811)
This is true, you need demand too. But NFTs make scarcity possible in a domain in which it was not possible before (digital art, for example). You have demand from collectors and speculators who want to create a market for "scarce" digital art. You have supply from creators who are quite happy to meet that demand. And you have NFTs, a way to make digital art scarce (for some definition of scarce.)
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by kortilla on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:42AM (#26886884)
No, the scarcity alone isn’t enough. There has to be some existing interest to make the “exclusivity” something people actually care about.

Each one of my paintings is completely unique and there are very few. Nobody cares and wouldn’t pay any premium for them.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by iso1631 on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @03:54AM (#26886576)
> DaVinci paintings

And there's the demand -- money laundering and smuggling ill-gotten gains (nazis had a lot of paintings)

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by Paradigma11 on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @07:16AM (#26888038)
The point is that customers are already paying a lot of fees in Ethereum for financial services on the blockchain. Right now that money goes to run a lot of powerplants and gpu farms but will sometime in the future go to Ethereum staker. PoS coins are a combination of money, store of value and investment in a financial service "cloud".
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by asenna on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @08:03AM (#26888468)
It will actually not be going to the Ethereum staker, the "base-fee" is going to be burned (removed from supply) and no one gets it, that's what EIP-1559 does (expected to arrive in the July London hard-fork)

To add to this, the overall issuance of ETH yearly is going to reduce from about ~ 4+ Million ETH in the PoW model to about ~ 1.x Million ETH in the PoS model, because the PoS security does not require as much issuance.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by Paradigma11 on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @08:36AM (#26888818)
You can only burn a little since:

1.)If you burn too much the whole pricing and ordering mechanism for operations does not work any more. Burning is only going to lead to big players in mining/staking and consumers making direct side arrangements.

2.) There is less incentive to stake since burning benefits all regardless if you stake or not. Its essentially a stock buyback. But sure you still have the inflationary block generation as rewards.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by Paradigma11 on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:26PM (#26893560)
"But sure you still have the inflationary block generation as rewards." To be more precise: You are still penalized by dilution/inflation if you dont stake.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by spinny on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @05:27PM (#26895653)
The move to PoS will probably bring the gas price down a bit, sharding will bring gas price down and add speed to the network
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by delaaxe on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @05:56AM (#26887431)
The drawings I made as a kid are very scarce, but completely worthless.

Demand is what creates value, not scarcity, although scarcity has an amplifying effect

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by koheripbal on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @06:09AM (#26887505)
Scarcity is also not something that you want from a currency, fundamentally. A currency needs to be abundant when needed, and scarce when oversupplied. That's the point of controlling the money supply based on economic growth rates, and the entire reason we have a Fed.

I believe strongly that cryptocurrencies have a strong future, but what is really needed is a crypto that automatically manages its money supply.

In the same way a car engine uses an oil pump to automatically ensure engine oil pressure is consistent when the car is revving vs when it is idle.

I also think there are better ways to incentivize mining rather than fixed crypto rewards. A better way would be a multi-year bond instrument that would pay coin dividends well into the future so that miners are vested in the future success of the coin, and not just the immediate pump & dump.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by chii on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @06:15AM (#26887529)
> automatically manages its money supply.

that's an interesting question and premis - automatic monetary policy. I wonder if good monetary policy could be encoded as a set of rules that can be followed by a machine.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by lottin on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @09:36AM (#26889492)
In order to reduce the money supply, money needs to be removed from circulation. In other words whoever is in charge of managing the money supply has to "sell" valuable stuff and then destroy the proceeds from the sale.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by dv_dt on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @12:12PM (#26891551)
or a different lever there might be to increase transaction fees
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by koheripbal on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @12:27PM (#26891794)
Brilliant.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by imtringued on Thursday April 22, 2021 @04:50AM (#26900399)
The problem is that we heavily depend on "oracles" in the real world, namely government published statistics and those could be manipulated, even if monetary policy was automated.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by delaaxe on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @08:14AM (#26888574)
You could even use an oracle network to feed economic data to the chain
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by koheripbal on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @08:30AM (#26888748)
I think it's easier than this. The Blockchain should be able to calculate the velocity of money just by the amount of currency flowing in the last x blocks. That alone should do it.

There's also some potential for a bond-market whereby miners BID for bonds, and thus the Blockchain can determine the community expected future inflation rate, and factor that into its calculation of money supply growth.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by imtringued on Thursday April 22, 2021 @04:48AM (#26900379)
>Scarcity is also not something that you want from a currency, fundamentally. A currency needs to be abundant when needed, and scarce when oversupplied. That's the point of controlling the money supply based on economic growth rates, and the entire reason we have a Fed.

Yes, we mold the currency to our needs, that's why we have abandoned gold. This is one of the reasons the euro is completely flawed. Each eurozone country has different needs, yet there is only one currency that can only be controlled for the eurozone as a whole. Without further political integration it is not possible to actually give each country what it needs. Some countries need a weak currency, some need a strong currency. Paradoxically, the euro is both too strong and too weak at the same time.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by delaaxe on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @08:12AM (#26888564)
> multi-year bond instrument that would pay coin dividends well into the future

That's a great idea. I'm not aware of any blockchain that does this, although some projects with seed funding do have long lockup periods

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by mratsim on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @10:00AM (#26889799)
Projects related to fixed income I know of are:

- https://88mph.app/

- https://alchemix.fi/

- https://www.apwine.fi/

- And https://curve.fi/ allows for 4 years lockup of their token to earn more fees.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by koheripbal on Thursday April 22, 2021 @06:56AM (#26901288)
The issue is that if they are based on ETH, then they still have the same problem. We need a NEW coin that has this functionality.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by spinny on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @05:36PM (#26895749)
i have played with go-ethereum's code in past and that sounds like something that could be implemented as an experimental consensus algo. Have you ever built some sort of model for this reward mechanism?
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by tim333 on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @12:10PM (#26891537)
It's the interplay of supply and demand. Air to breath is in demand but doesn't cost much due to abundant supply.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by astoor on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @06:50AM (#26887805)
> "prices aren't determined by supply alone, they are determined by supply and demand"

What we saw with the ICOs in 2017 and early 2018 is that there was a surge in demand for Ethereum to participate in the ICOs, which in turn sent the price shooting up. However, when new ICOs started to dry up in mid-2018 the demand also dried up, and when the companies that received all the Ethereum started to cash out the supply shot up, sending the prices right down. We could see something similar with NFTs.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by ObserverNeutral on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @07:16AM (#26888024)
> Scarce simply means is in short supply, but prices aren't determined by supply alone, they are determined by supply and demand

You can't predict demand, nobody can. So all things being equal (demand being unpredictable) you are better off holding something which is in low supply.

People are absulutely scared to death about inflation. It's deeply rooted in our brain and rightfully so. The first governments would dilute their citizen by adding lead to coins and reduce the silver %.

The same thing has been going on for millennia.

This is the reason why people hate inflation and have a strong preference for deflation.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by kybernetikos on Thursday April 22, 2021 @05:34AM (#26900669)
> You can't predict demand, nobody can.

You can't predict demand perfectly, but you absolutely can predict demand. In fact that's exactly what everyone is doing when they speculate.

There are also processes that help you predict floors to demand - e.g. that you must pay US taxes in US dollars.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by ObserverNeutral on Thursday April 22, 2021 @09:26AM (#26902465)
> You can't predict demand perfectly, but you absolutely can predict demand. In fact that's exactly what everyone is doing when they speculate.

If you want to make money you have to be pretty accurate in your prediction.

Nobody knows what Bitcoin or the S&P will do tomorrow. It's all rooted in psychology and we don't understand anything about it.

We don't even know where ideas come from