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Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by kaba0 on Monday April 19, 2021 @03:07AM (#26859855)
I don’t understand this shitting on open source software. Criticism would be okay, but a click-bait article with some easily debunked falsities on a not even released version, just seems to be in bad faith.

> Gnome doesn't show you the overview of your open apps or any application shortcuts on its desktop. You need to open Activities - an extra mouse click - before they are shown

It does, that is like the core feature of gnome. Maybe his/her version was buggy, but it did work even in the Fedora beta version I tried.

> Worse, as I outlined a dozen times over in multiple Fedora reviews, Firefox cannot be minimized, at all, with or without the titlebar

Wanting to minimize windows is great and all, but Gnome is a very opinionated software. Where on earth would a minimized window go? It has no tray by default. Minimized windows reappear in overview, so they clutter the screen just as much. Gnome is different is hardly a valid criticism. Feel free to use something else where minimized windows is part of the workflow. I doubt many would bring up lack of minimized windows on a tiling wm for example.

> The fonts still use the Grayscale hinting rather than subpixel (LCD); the latter offers far better results.

It can be set in Tweaks (I do agree that more settings should be exposed, but that’s another problem), which the author must be aware of as it was used for other things. Also, grayscale is the safe fallback, as not every screen would benefit from subpixel.

> Desktop scaling

Gnome Tweaks. Maybe looking around before writing an article would have been great.. It does work well under Wayland but is not enabled by default due to XServer apps becoming blurry on fractional scaling (since X has no such concept, it gets rendered at 2X and is then downscaled).

Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by dymax78 on Monday April 19, 2021 @04:20AM (#26860250)
> .....but a click-bait article with some easily debunked falsities on a not even released version, just seems to be in bad faith.

This article was written 5-days after Gnome 40s official release.

> Gnome doesn't show you the overview of your open apps or any application shortcuts on its desktop. You need to open Activities - an extra mouse click - before they are shown

>>It does, that is like the core feature of gnome. Maybe his/her version was buggy, but it did work even in the Fedora beta version I tried.

It absolutely does not, and this authors complaint is mirrored in every other review of Gnome 40. The aforementioned functionality was either removed or the extensions that provided said functionality are broken.

The common denominator and undeniable truth with every iteration of Gnome over the last x-years is inherent functionality is neutered and burdened by extension devs.

Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by kaba0 on Monday April 19, 2021 @04:27AM (#26860282)
> It absolutely does not, and this authors complaint is mirrored in every other review of Gnome 40.

We are either talking about something different, or I don’t know. If you press Super or swipe 3 fingers up you get the preview of every app on every desktop. On the picture in the article, the author has no window open (as apparent from the dock not having any “open” icons)

Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by wander_homer on Monday April 19, 2021 @05:55AM (#26860895)
That's precisely what the author wrote, you just replaced "an extra mouse click" with "press Super or swipe 3 fingers up", hence the additional step to display all running applications still remains with your solution.
Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by kaba0 on Monday April 19, 2021 @06:02AM (#26860940)
And if you do that, then you have every window’s overview there, so what you and the author writes is false.

Would you like a screenshot of it, because that is what I see precisely in front of me?

Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by wander_homer on Monday April 19, 2021 @06:09AM (#26860988)
I don't need a screenshot, I have it running here. By default GNOME does not display all running applications on the desktop, you always have to do an extra step (mouse click, hot corner, key press, swipe) and activate the Activities screen, which is not necessary on basically any other desktop system, and that is precisely what the author complained about.
Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by kaba0 on Monday April 19, 2021 @07:02AM (#26861300)
That’s called not having a taskbar, and has been the case since Gnome 3 (without extensions), so I don’t see how is it relevant under gnome 40.

And why would I want to waste vertical space for that, when I can do a really short movement to see them all, in a better digestible form, because humans are better at remembering the position of something

Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by wander_homer on Monday April 19, 2021 @07:42AM (#26861616)
> That’s called not having a taskbar

Or a dock, the one GNOME already implements in its Activities screen.

> and has been the case since Gnome 3 (without extensions), so I don’t see how is it relevant under gnome 40.

The author never said otherwise, their whole point was to explain, that moving the dock from the left, which is in close range to the hot corner and button to activate the Activities screen, to the bottom, means that you now have to move the mouse a much larger distance if you want to access the dock with the mouse. And since GNOME doesn't support an auto-hiding dock at the bottom, there's no way around that when you use the mouse.

I mean I'm just rephrasing what the author already wrote, because I think they made their point pretty clear to begin with.

> And why would I want to waste vertical space for that, when I can do a really short movement to see them all, in a better digestible form, because humans are better at remembering the position of something

Every other modern and popular desktop on this planet supports auto-hiding docks/panels and nobody asks GNOME to force an always visible dock on you.

Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by unionpivo on Monday April 19, 2021 @09:11AM (#26862348)
Sure, and it has bugged people like me since release of Gnome 3.

Well ... I switched to KDE, so not really bugged by it any more.

What he wrote is factually correct (about extra click/gesture/keypress/...), and complaint of many people.

Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by 3836293648 on Monday April 19, 2021 @03:27PM (#26866942)
If the author has no windows open and isn't on the overview that's because the author chose to not be on the overview. GNOME boots into the overview now
Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by ldng on Monday April 19, 2021 @03:33AM (#26859999)
You don't understand ? I don't know, maybe a decade of not listening to its actual user instead of pouring ton of work for fantasied ones ?

Responsive design and Tablet were the rage and going to replace every other computer. Fast-forward, has was predictable, it did not. Gnome needs to go back to the drawing board and revise assumptions made 10 years ago. And, no, keyboard shortcut do not compensate bad design.

If Gnome is niche on the desktop, it is non-existent on touch devices. The project needs to get over that and start to cater to it's actual user base.

See, user too can be very opinionated ;-)

Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by pjerem on Monday April 19, 2021 @05:51AM (#26860861)
Maybe, since Gnome is a Free software, the Gnome developers team does not owe anything to anyone ? I really like Gnome choices, but if I change my mind on a future update, who am I to rant against a project that works "for free"?

Some years ago, I was myself a "really opinionated user" and well ... Linux doesn't lack of mature opinionated DE : you can do barely anything you want with XFCE, MATE and KDE.

Also, I really don't understand this "touchscreen oriented Gnome". There is nothing in Gnome that is meant to be used in touch mode. Gnome ergonomics are totally built around the Super key (and now, touchpad gestures) once you get this, you understand all the gnome _desktop_ paradigm.

It's really inspired by OSX where every workflow action can be done with touchpad gestures and keyboard (without moving the pointer, which is only useful inside applications). Once you get this paradigm, there is no way to go back.

I really think also that Gnome was betting for better touchpad support on linux years and years ago, but it looks like we had to wait for Wayland to have something decent.

Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by ldng on Monday April 19, 2021 @10:49AM (#26863339)
They were not "betting for better touchpad" but for tablet. I remember clearly arguments being made about GNOME 3 being targeted at tablet at the time when I was on the mailing-lists.
Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by alex_duf on Monday April 19, 2021 @03:59AM (#26860139)
Or, the angry crowd who doesn't use it stops criticising an opinionated desktop, and leave the users who happen to agree with said opinions use that desktop. I love gnome the way it is.

I don't minimise Windows, I love the launcher, the keyboard shortcuts make so much more sense than osx, and it's not the sluggish monster everyone seems to think it is.

Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by seniorivn on Monday April 19, 2021 @05:00AM (#26860494)
the valid criticism of opinionated gnome desktop is that gnome is being redesigned right now with no particular reason, just highly opinionated developers feel like it. That's weird from a gnome user perspective(the one that agreed with previous iteration of opinionated work flow).
Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by pjerem on Monday April 19, 2021 @05:54AM (#26860886)
Well, that's the project of those "highly opinionated developers". They work for free, and they really sleep well if you prefer to install XFCE or create a fork of the previous iterations of Gnome.
Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by akagusu on Monday April 19, 2021 @09:59AM (#26862823)
Gnome Foundation rises lots of money from both companies and individuals and there are gnome developers working full-time or part-time and being paid to do it, so this old argument "this is free software, they work for free in their spare time, they owe you nothing" doesn't apply in this context.
Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by pjerem on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:19AM (#26870961)
Yes you are right. But the user base is not paying a cent. Of course, there is maybe some 0.0x% users who donate sometimes...

« They owe you nothing » totally apply in this context. Even if you were a donator (which there are few probability you are).

Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by robobob on Monday April 19, 2021 @04:24AM (#26860269)
>the keyboard shortcuts make so much more sense than osx I was happy to see someone is happy with gnome, but the shortcuts argument makes me think you are trolling
Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by kubav on Monday April 19, 2021 @04:59AM (#26860482)
I use gnome on desktop and I liked it. Keyboard shortcuts are the most important way to control desktop for me, I do not care if it is hard to control using mouse. I do not need hierarchic program menu, start button and lots of configuration dialogs.

It is true that some defaults are annoying and lots of configuration options are missing in GUI programs but it is still possible to configure basically everything using gsettings or gnome extensions (which I prefer over KDE style config).

I do not like some gnome apps (i.e. nautilus or gedit) but there are alternatives so no big problem there.

Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by ldng on Monday April 19, 2021 @10:52AM (#26863373)
Then the UI is relevant to you. That does not make it any better.
Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by forgotpwd16 on Monday April 19, 2021 @05:38AM (#26860777)
>It does, that is like the core feature of gnome

You missed the point. They meant there's no always-on-display taskbar.

>It can be set in Tweaks

>Gnome Tweaks

Probably, but should you "need a SEPARATE application" (as they say) to set something that should be default? That you can configure those things using third-party software doesn't take away from the point the author is making, and if anything enhances it since some should've been the default.

Re:Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop by abenga on Monday April 19, 2021 @08:30AM (#26861986)
It should not be the default; it's a waste of scarce horizontal pixels on something you may not need to use all the time. Alt+Tab is sufficient for seeing which Windows are open, and switching among them.