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Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by ChuckMcM on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @07:26PM (#26732962)
One of the VAX computers I rescued from disposal at the height of the Y2K impending apocolypse came with licenses (PAKs for those in the know) for DEC COBOL, DEC RDBMS, and DEC FORMS. These three applications formed the backbone of payroll processing for the company that was tossing the VAX.

This machine, processed the payroll for a bit over 5,000 employees on a "clustered" machine that had a combined total of 512MB of RAM and 4GB of disk. I can assure you that "Quickbook Payroll" would not be able to handle this on a similarly resourced x86 machine. Not even close.

Unicode support is nice, and the fact that once you've compiled your application to binary it doesn't have to go over the Internet to load key parts is super nice.

And yes, there are people that still use COBOL, still think it is the best choice for the task that it is doing, and keep it going with a modest amount of maintenance.

Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by qwerty456127 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @09:20PM (#26733941)
> I can assure you that "Quickbook Payroll" would not be able to handle this on a similarly resourced x86 machine. Not even close.

Why? I've been into x86 databases since the Windows NT days and 5000 doesn't seem an impressive number to me.

Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by jussij on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @11:11PM (#26734685)
The OP's comment was conditional: on a similarly resourced x86 machine.

Windows, let alone Quickbooks is not going to run very well on a machine with just 512MB of RAM.

Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by qwerty456127 on Thursday April 08, 2021 @03:17AM (#26735982)
I know today Windows is not going to run very well. But why? What are they doing to consume so much resources? Today Windows and Office do exactly same job they did 20 years ago (I even used 3-rd party bells&whistles to make Windows 2000 and 98 look at least as "cool" as it does today as I was a kid and enjoyed that).

Also, I can imagine using an Excel spreadsheet with some sheets, thousands of records on each one (Excel 97 max rows was 65536) + formulae and macros even 20 years ago so, again, 5000 doesn't seem an impressive.

I can't remember how much would SQLServer with a database take those days though so perhaps a 4GB HDD might indeed be insufficient.

Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by anthk on Thursday April 08, 2021 @08:04AM (#26737697)
Windows NT/2000/98 would run really well on 512MB of RAM.
Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by mrathys on Thursday April 08, 2021 @05:05AM (#26736634)
similarly priced machines would run circles around it?
Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by chasil on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @08:32PM (#26733533)
Can't you get all this stuff with a hobbiest license and a full media kit?

Doesn't macro32 on alpha or itanium run old VAX binaries transparently? Why keep the antiques? Even SimH seems a better option (assuming the licenses work).

http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/news.php

Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by ChuckMcM on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @10:19PM (#26734360)
You could, except that they stopped the hobbiest program sadly.
Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by sidpatil on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @10:28PM (#26734423)
VMS Software, the newest maintainers of OpenVMS, have continued the hobbyist program. https://vmssoftware.com/community/community-license/
Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by ChuckMcM on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @11:15PM (#26734712)
Except this bit: Please note that in accordance with the license agreement between VMS Software Inc. and HPE, VMS Software Inc. are not able to distribute VAX licenses.

Since I've got actual Vaxen it doesn't help.

Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by chasil on Thursday April 08, 2021 @12:02AM (#26734970)
So back to the original question, what about macro32, the VAX emulator built into VMS on alpha and itanium?

Where you have the source, you can build a native binary. Where you lack it, perhaps the emulation is sufficiently robust.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAX_MACRO

Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by ChuckMcM on Thursday April 08, 2021 @01:11AM (#26735290)
Running VAX binaries per-se isn't a problem, you can run them on SIMH quite reasonably[1]. The challenge is running VAX binaries that use authorization keys (PAKs). Unless you have the key (or forge one) the binary won't run.

I have keys for the VAX assembler (and Fortran, BASIC, and Ada) so running source, and building applications that DECUS distributed back in the day, isn't a problem for me.

What annoyed me was that VMS/VAX support was discontinued by the hobbyiest program. When it was announced and I asked for details they suggested I contact licensing. Which I did and suggested I could buy new licenses for VAX machines for $5,000 good for up to 25 users. For a machine that was headed for the skip. So someone, somewhere, and I'm thinking US GOV here, "can't" upgrade their VAX hardware and HP has them over a barrel so they continue to hold those licenses as saleable products. But that is purely speculation on my part.

[1] In fact, for the earlier models (anything before the VAX 4000 series), they run faster on a modern PC under simh than they do on the original hardware.

Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by ch_123 on Thursday April 08, 2021 @04:46AM (#26736511)
There's two separate programs under VMS:

MACRO32 is a VAX assembly compiler - given a VAX assembly source listing, it can turn it into object code for Alpha, IA64 or x86. In some cases, the code will need special annotations.

There's also VEST on Alpha which does translation of user-mode VAX binaries into Alpha binaries. I think that was an optional product. Many products (including things unrelated to the operating system) don't fall into the user-mode category due to the use of the "Privileged Image" mechanism of VMS.

Nitpick: Neither are emulators in the strictest sense of the term.

Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by space_ghost on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @10:01PM (#26734225)
What's so burdensome about payroll processing? It seems straightforward enough.
Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by ineedasername on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @11:11PM (#26734692)
It's really not that simple, because payroll processing isn't just the part where an amount of money is sent to a bank account. It's tied up in a lot of complexities like accrued time off, time off used during the pay period, which pool of time it came from, potential for comp time or overtime, etc. That's not even getting into benefits like payroll deductions for health insurance, the choices of different insurance types, performance bonuses, annual cost of living increases... There are a ton of variables involved, this doesn't scratch the surface.
Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by goatinaboat on Thursday April 08, 2021 @12:46AM (#26735190)
Re:IBM COBOL for Linux on x86 by FpUser on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @08:39PM (#26733619)
>"Unicode support is nice, and the fact that once you've compiled your application to binary it doesn't have to go over the Internet to load key parts is super nice."

Which is what I or anybody else who wants to have now anyways. I do not recall my applications "loading their key parts" from various places. Everything is local and native yet connected when needed.