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Re:We Don’t Use Docker by thefz on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:00AM (#26474082)
Yeah Jonathan Blow isn't exactly a luminary in computer science. I once read him going on a meltdown over linux ports because "programming is hard". This is the kind of minds Apple enable, i.e. "why isn't this easy?"
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by neuronic on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:58AM (#26474778)
The entire point of computers is to make things easy.

The Apple question "why isn't this easy" is missing from 95% of UX in modern software. Stop acting as if software devs are the only users of software. And even then: computers should do work and not produce work or mental overhead.

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by dghf on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:46AM (#26477381)
> The Apple question "why isn't this easy" is missing from 95% of UX in modern software.

I switched to a MacBook at work a few months ago, and it's been an epic of frustration and Googling: e.g.,

1. I set the keyboard layout to UK PC, but it kept switching back to default. (I was accidentally mashing a keyboard shortcut designed to do just that. I've since disabled it.)

2. Clicking on a link or other web-page element will, occasionally and apparently randomly, take me back a page or two in my history rather than opening the link or activating the element. (At least in Chrome: I've not used another browser on macOS yet.)

3. Command-tabbing to a minimised application does not, as one would naively expect, automatically unminimise it. Instead I'm left staring at an apparently unchanged screen.

4. If I open Finder in a given folder, there is, as best can tell, no easy way to navigate to that folder's parent.

Now arguably #1 was the fault of my own ignorance (though some kind of obvious feedback as to what was happening and why would have been nice), and #2 may be down to Google rather than Apple.

But #3 and #4 are plain bad design, bordering on user-hostile.

So far I'm not seeing that Apple's reputation for superior UX is justified, at least not in laptops.

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by sjcoles on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:08AM (#26477720)
Window switching in OS X is so unintuitive it drives me MAD when you are remoting into a Mac.

Finder is just god awful and does all it can to obscure your actual filesystem location but the go to folder (cmd+g?) can get you where you need to go.

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by blacktriangle on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @03:55PM (#26496058)
The Apple reputation was absolutely justified back in the OS9 era, and the early iPhone as well. However both OS X and iOS7 and beyond were huge steps backwards in usability.

At this point I think Apple still deserves their reputation for superior UX, however that's a result of how epically bad Google, MS, and Facebook are at UX, not Apple doing a great job like they used to.

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by bigbizisverywyz on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:09AM (#26477738)
for 4. ...as best can tell, no easy way to navigate to that folder's parent

You can add a button to the toolbar in Finder (customize it from options) that when dropped down will show the complete path to the current folder as a list. You can use that to move up the tree.

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by mpcjanssen on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:29AM (#26478080)
Cmd-Up brings you to the parent folder.
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by ricketycricket on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @01:46PM (#26480242)
You can also cmd + click the current directory name in the menu bar to get the same menu.
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by otabdeveloper4 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:37AM (#26475015)
Are you implying Apple software and devices are "easy"?

I think that's marketing, and not borne out of real experience.

Try setting up a new Apple device, there is very little in IT that is as frustrating and confusing.

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by coldtea on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:15AM (#26475269)
>Try setting up a new Apple device, there is very little in IT that is as frustrating and confusing.

It's a 5 minute process, and there's very little to it that it's not optimized for ease. Any champ can do it, and millions do.

Not sure what you're on about.

>I think that's marketing, and not borne out of real experience.

Yes, all those people are delluded.

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by otabdeveloper4 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:26AM (#26475339)
Clearly you've never tried it, because it's certainly not 5 minutes, it's optimized for selling you bullshit Apple services and it's buggy as hell, with no feedback to the user why everything is broken and why you're having to re-authenticate five times in a row.

And good luck if you're setting up a family account for several devices with different iOS versions. You're gonna really need it.

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by coldtea on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:35AM (#26476472)
>Clearly you've never tried it, because it's certainly not 5 minutes, it's optimized for selling you bullshit Apple services and it's buggy as hell

I've tried it tons of times, have over 20 iOS/macOS devices over the years, and for some pervese reason, on macOS/OS X I like to install every major update on a clean disk too (and then re-import my data. It's an old Windows 95/XP-era reflex), so I do it at least once every year for my main driver (plus different new iOS devices).

What part of this sounds difficult?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70u0x8Kf6j4

And the whole "optimized for selling you bullshit Apple services" is a couple of screens you can skip with one click -- and you might want to legitimately use too.

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by monkey_monkey on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:13AM (#26475659)
Honestly, literally millions of people do this every year, and for most of them, it's like 10 minutes, plus the time waiting for the iCloud restore. Even my dad was able to set up his new iPad, and he's as techophobic as it gets.
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by otabdeveloper4 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:19AM (#26476981)
Technophobic people are exactly the target audience that has a huge tolerance for broken software built on piles of abusive bullshit.
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by monkey_monkey on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @12:45PM (#26479268)
My father has very little patience for broken things, software or otherwise, so I'm really not sure what you're talking about.
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by pjmlp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:03AM (#26476157)
It is definitly easier than configuring any GNU/Linux distribution.
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by ensignavenger on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:25AM (#26478017)
Watching the video that coldtea posted, no, it is not. Ubuntu and most of its derivatives have very easy installers, and take a fraction of the time. The video didn't even include the time it would take to read and understand all the terms and conditions!
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by pjmlp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @12:01PM (#26478574)
Assuming one wants a partial working computer after installation.
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by ensignavenger on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @02:33PM (#26480927)
I don't know what you mean by this- care to elaborate? I have several fully working computers running Ubuntu derivatives without having to do anything after the install.
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by pjmlp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @02:35PM (#26480941)
I bet none of them is a laptop.
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by ensignavenger on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:47PM (#26484749)
I currently have two laptops, one a Lenovo from work with Kubuntu and the other cheap Asus with KDE Neon. Both required no additional work to be fully working after install.
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by coldtea on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:14AM (#26475257)
>This is the kind of minds Apple enable, i.e. "why isn't this easy?"

So the kind of minds we want?

"Why isn't this easy?" should be the bread and butter question of a programmer...

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by thefz on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:15AM (#26476266)
Except for problems that are hard. I wholeheartedly disagree, Blow showed many times he has not the right mindset.
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by yowlingcat on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:37AM (#26475883)
> This is the kind of minds Apple enable, i.e. "why isn't this easy?"

I dunno, personally that's why I've used Apple products for the past decade, and I think it's also maybe part of why they have a 2T market cap, and are the most liquid publicly traded stock in the world?

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by thefz on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:25AM (#26476366)
So making simplistic products that treat users as dumb is profitable, yeah, I agree with that.
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by meepmorp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:42AM (#26477310)
Believe it or not, lots of people have more important things to do with their computers than dick with them to make shit work.

Most people don't really know how their car works, and shouldn't have to. Same goes here.

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by yowlingcat on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:14AM (#26477821)
Where's your evidence for that? The argument that it "treats users as dumb" and that doing so is "profitable" is oft trotted out, but I never see any substantiation for it. Plenty of companies do that. What's so special about Apple, then? I mean, it's gotta be something.

You gotta be careful about these arguments. They often have a slippery slope to a superiority complex (of "leet" NIX users over the unwashed "proles") hiding deep within.

Needlessly complex or powerful user interfaces aren't necessarily good. They were quite commonplace before Apple. Apple understood the value of minimalism, of cutting away interaction noise until there's nothing left to subtract. Aesthetically speaking, this is approach has a long, storied history with respect to mechanical design. It's successful because it works.

What Apple understood really acutely and mastered is human interface design. They perfected making human centric interfaces that look and feel like fluid prosthetic extensions of one's body, rather than computational interface where power is achieved by anchoring ones tasks around the machine for maximal efficiency. Briefly, they understood intuition. Are you arguing that intuition is somehow worse than mastering arcana, simple because you've done the latter?

Now, I'm not going to say that one is better than the other. I love my command line vim workflow dearly, and you'll have to pry my keyboard out of my cold dead hands. But there's definitely the idea of "right tool for the right job" that you might be sweeping by here. Remember, simplicity is as much a function of cherished *NIX tools you probably know and love. It's where they derive their power. Be careful of surface level dismissals (visual interfaces versus textual) that come from tasting it in a different flavor. You might miss the forest for the trees!

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by movedx on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:15AM (#26474150)
It's easy to take a stab at someone online, behind a keyboard, but I'd suggest you show us all your work and we'll judge your future opinions based on it.
Re:We Don’t Use Docker by thefz on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:31AM (#26476421)
By no metric I am comparatively as successful as the guy, but I am still able to disagree on his point that Linux is held back by its tools. The fact that he did not want or had the time to learn Linux's tooling don't mean anything in particular except that he's either very busy or very lazy. Any interview I read with him he's just ranting and crying over this or that "too complex" matter. If he does not want to deal with the complexity of modern computers, he should design and build board games.

As an example, read how the one-man-band of Execution Unit manages to, in house, write and test his game on three operating systems. https://www.executionunit.com/blog/2019/01/02/how-i-support-...

It's not a matter of "this is too hard", Blow just does not want to do it, let's be honest.

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by majjgepolja on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:02AM (#26475590)
preferably future work and dreams and ramblings too..

preferably over a twitch stream..

Re:We Don’t Use Docker by pjmlp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:55AM (#26476076)
If I wanted that experience I would kept my PC with MS-DOS 3.3.