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Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by mywittyname on Thursday March 04, 2021 @03:41PM (#26347981)
> I know the common refrain is "Delete Facebook!" but that's the equivalent of abstinence-only education. We need to start talking about how to configure Screen Time on iOS, or how to use Facebook's built-in tools to hide content you don't want to see.

I see it more akin to the opioid crisis. Just like drug manufactures shouldn't be pushing opioids as a way to deal with minor pain and depression because they know it hooks users. Maybe social media companies shouldn't be pushing hateful and outrageous content to hook their users.

You can sing about personal responsibility all you want. But these companies pay scientists millions of dollars a year to come up with ways to keep you hooked. The only way to win is not to play the game. Normal people are seriously outgunned here.

Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by misdichotomy on Thursday March 04, 2021 @04:39PM (#26348767)
> Normal people are seriously outgunned here.

This is quite right. PragmaticPulp's phrase "an act perpetrated by evil corporations on us helpless individuals" is a bit of rhetorical jujitsu, creating a strawman to set up a rallying cry "I believe people have agency!" You don't have to assume that individuals are "helpless", as if they are generally helpless and lacking agency, to agree that these corporations are exploiting them.

That said, people's agency is limited (bounded rationality). Awareness of how one is being manipulated is not evenly distributed among the population (asymmetric information). And even when there is awareness, people are unevenly affected by it and unevenly empowered to deal with it.

Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by gnicholas on Thursday March 04, 2021 @06:57PM (#26350298)
It’s not just normal people who are outgunned — I am tech-savvy and have had an iPhone since the day they were released. I know how to modify notification settings, but there’s nothing I can do preemptively when can simply Twitter add a new category of notifications, as they did the other day. I had to go into the notification settings within the app and disable this new category, and then do it again for each of the three accounts on my phone.

Similarly, Lyft makes it nearly impossible to figure out where to turn off the coupon notifications. And don’t get me started on LinkedIn...

This isn’t just an issue for normal people. It’s also time-consuming and troublesome for anyone short of the dev who built the dark pattern.

Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by guntars on Thursday March 04, 2021 @11:04PM (#26352534)
Why would you have notifications turned on for Twitter? Just turn them off. The trick is to intentionally go on social media and waste time, instead of being pulled in by a notification.
Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by gnicholas on Thursday March 04, 2021 @11:48PM (#26352849)
I use Twitter for my startup and want to get mention and retweet notifications. I turn off all others, and as a result I get only a handful of notifications per week.

What annoys me is new categories of notifications that Twitter turns on by default, even for users who have disabled all of these novel/generic/impersonal notification types.

Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by smichel17 on Friday March 05, 2021 @08:58AM (#26356897)
You're struggling against the unbalanced power dynamic that proprietary software creates between developers and users.
Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by danaliv on Thursday March 04, 2021 @04:49PM (#26348893)
Indeed, that's precisely what makes these techniques so powerful. For many people, even self-knowledge isn't a reliable defense.
Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by Aunche on Thursday March 04, 2021 @08:12PM (#26351086)
> This is quite right. PragmaticPulp's phrase "an act perpetrated by evil corporations on us helpless individuals" is a bit of rhetorical jujitsu, creating a strawman...

How is this a strawman? This article is absolutely this inflamatory, if not more so.

> Reddit, for example, has always obfuscated the true Karma score (“to prevent vote brigading”)

There is no reason to believe otherwise. Everyone from Youtube and cheat-bot detection services utilizes the same strategy.

> To the contrary, the Ministries of Truth, Peace, Love, and Plenty will all be private (or publicly traded) entities.

Basically, the conclusion is that we're inevitably going to turn into 1984. There isn't even a suggestion of how to change the situation.

Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by TeMPOraL on Friday March 05, 2021 @05:07AM (#26355077)
And, there's only so much time in the day. Nobody can afford to keep up to date with every possible threat the market throws at us, and to stay vigilant and proactive. You end up picking your battles.
Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by goatinaboat on Thursday March 04, 2021 @06:18PM (#26349897)
these companies pay scientists millions of dollars a year to come up with ways to keep you hooked

Exactly like tobacco companies had scientists on the payroll to boost addiction. That is the best and most accurate analogue for Facebook I believe, it’s like smoking, it’s addictive and it externalises its harmful effects.

Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by tppiotrowski on Thursday March 04, 2021 @03:59PM (#26348226)
Can you provide some reading material about the scientists that get paid millions of dollars to keep you hooked? This is the first time I’ve heard of scientists involved.
Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by ceejayoz on Thursday March 04, 2021 @04:20PM (#26348505)
There are lots of examples of this.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/18/facebook-cambri...

> He was hired to work at Facebook as a quantitative social psychologist around November 2015, roughly two months after leaving GSR, which had by then acquired data on millions of Facebook users.

https://venturebeat.com/2014/06/07/exclusive-to-sell-ads-in-...

> Corey has been working as a quantitative researcher at Facebook since last summer. His growth research team has “two sociologists and a manager trained in communications with a sociologist as an advisor,” according to an article he published early this year. The team helps expand Facebook to developing countries. Corey uses R-based software stack, collects data via Hive and uses a few other coding languages to do his job.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/every...

> We now know that’s exactly what happened two years ago. For one week in January 2012, data scientists skewed what almost 700,000 Facebook users saw when they logged into its service. Some people were shown content with a preponderance of happy and positive words; some were shown content analyzed as sadder than average. And when the week was over, these manipulated users were more likely to post either especially positive or negative words themselves.

> This tinkering was just revealed as part of a new study, published in the prestigious Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Many previous studies have used Facebook data to examine “emotional contagion,” as this one did. This study is different because, while other studies have observed Facebook user data, this one set out to manipulate it.

Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by theplague42 on Thursday March 04, 2021 @04:02PM (#26348269)
Literally any analyst or data science job related to growth or user engagement on social media.

https://research.fb.com/category/data-science/

Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by tacocataco on Thursday March 04, 2021 @07:12PM (#26350461)
Thanks for the link.

I feel the downvotes were unwarranted. (Not accusing you of Downvoting) Perhaps the user isn't familiar with the industry. I know I'm out of my league with most of the content posted here.

https://xkcd.com/1053/

Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by quantified on Friday March 05, 2021 @12:09AM (#26352982)
Thanks for the xkcd link!
Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by loopz on Thursday March 04, 2021 @04:18PM (#26348485)
They for sure don't work on solving the climate crisis. That's unprofitable.

Wall Street gobbled up most ph.D's and researchers years ago, but marketing/ads space have a stranglehold on much of it nowadays.

Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by ummonk on Thursday March 04, 2021 @05:14PM (#26349197)
FANG pay is usually hundreds of thousands not millions, but most data scientists at these companies are working to optimize user engagement.
Re:“User engagement” is code for “addiction” by ceejayoz on Thursday March 04, 2021 @05:51PM (#26349628)
They spend millions on multiple scientists, not per-head.