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Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by rsj_hn on Friday February 26, 2021 @05:33PM (#26280657)
I'm really impressed with Mazda, they seem to be staying on the right side of several trends where the industry is going in the other direction. They still make cars that are a bit more responsive whereas the industry is making either luxury floaters or crazy horsepower monsters. Good handling, they avoid CVT and have a very practical approach to tech. If anyone is a fan of MotoMan, he's done some cool deep dives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMke4Fl4gyw

(Sorry if this sounds like an ad, I'm not affiliated with them but have been scouting for a car recently.)

Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by justintoon on Friday February 26, 2021 @07:19PM (#26281419)
I drive a base model Mazda 3 which has needed no major repairs whatsoever and runs like a top. Meanwhile my wife drives a Nissan Murano (by all accounts a much “nicer” car) and we had to effectively replace the entire steering system at a cost of several thousand dollars.
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by benhurmarcel on Saturday February 27, 2021 @06:19AM (#26284106)
> they seem to be staying on the right side of several trends where the industry is going in the other direction

Except electric cars. They have been avoiding doing anything electric for years, pushing ICE instead.

Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by mey on Saturday February 27, 2021 @12:22PM (#26286310)
Yeah, the most they have done is a capacitor attached to an oversized alternator for regenerative braking. They have pushed ICE pretty far out there with skyactiv-x but they aren't bringing it to the US market soon. It's over in Europe for now. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15339942/mazdas-gasoline-...
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by katbyte on Friday February 26, 2021 @06:18PM (#26281007)
have a 20 year old mazda miata that has been abused and needed next to no work, drives super well still. Next car would be a mazda but i want a manual truck to offroad in so i'm going toyota.
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by rsj_hn on Friday February 26, 2021 @07:24PM (#26281445)
You have a gem! Congratulations! But how is it for daily driving?
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by supersour on Friday February 26, 2021 @07:50PM (#26281632)
I have a 29 year old Mazda miata (it's older than I am FYI) and it's been really great! I drive it year round in pretty harsh winters and I find it no less capable than the econobox I used to drive.
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by culopatin on Saturday February 27, 2021 @10:12AM (#26285296)
1989 Miata checking in. I drove it daily for 2 years. Now I have a newer car and I still pick to drive the Miata every time I’m alone or I’m not going to Home Depot (I’ve taken it to Costco though with great success).

I’m getting a bunch of turbo components tomorrow so that may change things.

The only things I’ve HAD to repair are... the top. $250 and 4hs later I have a new one on that’s been great. Everything else has been track oriented upgrades and tinkering out of boredom. It’s even running on an old Megasquirt ECU I put together as a teen, so it’s not even Japan reliable, and it’s still more reliable than many of my friend’s cars.

Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by katbyte on Saturday February 27, 2021 @08:37PM (#26289891)
Fantastic, and great on gas. I would keep it around for city driving but as I live in a downtown core it just doesn’t make sense.
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by andrepd on Friday February 26, 2021 @06:09PM (#26280941)
> they avoid CVT

Is that a good thing?

Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by rsj_hn on Friday February 26, 2021 @07:52PM (#26281639)
I don't know about "good" or "bad", but they tend to be less responsive and create more of a spongy, floaty feel. In terms of creating a more connected driving experience, the best would be either manual or dual clutch systems. Obviously you can create good or bad transmissions in all of these categories and you may prefer a softer ride - there are customers who pay a lot of money for a softer ride or even be driven along, it just depends on what you want.
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by sojournerc on Friday February 26, 2021 @06:21PM (#26281023)
Good question. I have a CVT on a 2011 Subaru with ~100k miles, and never had an issue with it.

It still has a manual mode, even paddle shifters, but in regular drive, the lack of hard shift is really pleasant.

Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by formerly_proven on Friday February 26, 2021 @07:09PM (#26281360)
> but in regular drive, the lack of hard shift is really pleasant.

I sometimes drive an US-designed car with, I assume, an US-designed automatic transmission (traditional planetary sets + torque converter) and I was actually surprised it doesn't shift very smoothly, worse than a good driver on a manual and much worse than dual-clutch transmissions. With the latter it's pretty much impossible to tell when it is shifting if you cannot hear the motor rev.

(When you switch that car to 4L... oh dear, every shift feels like a learner driver learning to shift with the entire car jerking around. Everyone nods in approval!)

Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by rsj_hn on Friday February 26, 2021 @08:11PM (#26281743)
> I sometimes drive an US-designed car with, I assume, an US-designed automatic transmission

regular Automatic transmissions (not CVT) have been commoditized and are usually subcontracted out to dedicated vendors that make transmissions and sell them to auto manufacturers all around the world, so the nationality of the car vendor isn't going to tell much about transmission quality.

For example, the largest market share of car automatic transmissions belongs to (Japan based) Aisin, which sells transmissions to Ford, Toyota, BMW, Skoda, Chevrolet, Suzuki, Volvo, Hyundai, and many others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aisin_transmissions

A lot of the bus and truck transmissions are made by (US-based) Allison and they are sold all over the world and have the largest share in duty engines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_Transmission

There is large variability in perceived transmission quality, depending on everything from how the software controls it to form factor (real wheel or front wheel) to issues of reliability and build quality, but there are excellent US transmission vendors as well.

Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by cowkingdeluxe on Friday February 26, 2021 @07:06PM (#26281349)
They added a fake hard shift on outbacks newer than that. I've had a 2010 (first CVT), 2011, 2013 and 2018.
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by ogre_codes on Friday February 26, 2021 @10:11PM (#26282265)
If you value fuel economy, CVT is good. If you value driving performance, it is bad. Choose one.

(Or just buy electric and don't worry about fiddly transmissions)

Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by rsj_hn on Saturday February 27, 2021 @04:50PM (#26288496)
Even in the world of PEV there is a trade off between fuel economy and performance, so this has nothing to do with transmissions.

The fact that you use energy stored as electricity does not get around the laws of inertia or air resistance -- accelerating a mass quickly will always require more energy than accelerating it slowly. And in the PEV world, since re-charging can take an hour instead of a minute, the consequences of draining the battery more quickly are going to be more of an annoyance.

Transmissions come up in that this is how some automakers meet efficiency requirements -- by taking away some control over acceleration from the driver by using a transmission that is programmed to shift gears in the higher rev ranges, with no manual override. But this makes the car less responsive.

Here, Tesla's brilliance shines, not because it doesn't have a transmission -- they can and do put in software that limits acceleration, so they could have done the same thing to improve range, but onlike others that improve efficiency by making the car less responsive to the driver, they improve efficiency by having a more efficent engine or a lighter car, while keepig the car very responsive to the driver. The real brilliance of Tesla is in building cars that are fun to drive (read, responsive), and indeed most of the innovation of electric cars that has been successful in the market was based around improving acceleration and adding more torque, making the car more fun to drive. That's why models like the Tesla or the old Ferrarris with electric assist are much loved by drivers, even though models like the Leaf and Bolt are not. Drivers care about good handling.

Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by ogre_codes on Saturday February 27, 2021 @09:42PM (#26290175)
> Even in the world of PEV there is a trade off between fuel economy and performance, so this has nothing to do with transmissions.

CVTs are not efficient because they control the rate of acceleration. You can over-rev a CVT and get as much acceleration as your engine (and it's transmissions losses) will allow. CVTs are efficient because they allow the engine of the car to operate in its most efficient power range more of the time.

EVs run into this same issue, but the way Tesla anyhow solved for it is pretty wild. Dual motor Teslas have 2 different motor/ drivetrain gear ratios. The rear wheels are most efficient at lower speeds and when you are driving slower, they get most of the power. The front wheels are most efficient at higher speeds and when you are driving faster, they get the most power. This way the most efficient motor is always doing the most work at any time. This is likely why the AWD Teslas have so much more range than the single engine/ RWD models.

There is a good article talking about EV transmissions here, the bit about Tesla's 2 gear ratio setup is about 12 paragraphs in.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/22/ev-transmissions-are-co...

Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by nerdponx on Friday February 26, 2021 @06:17PM (#26280989)
I can't speak for nowadays, but my experience with early non-hybrid CVT vehicles was negative. I test drove a Nissan Versa and the engine was sitting at around 4k RPM doing 60 MPH on the highway. It was very loud for a small hatchback, and generally unpleasant to drive.
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by sebastien_b on Saturday February 27, 2021 @09:08PM (#26290039)
That’s what I used to have (2008) and it wasn’t like that for me.

Your experience sounds like the overdrive was off. Or the transmission was dying/defective.

Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by nerdponx on Saturday February 27, 2021 @11:01PM (#26290566)
I think I tested the Versa in 2008. I specifically raised this concern with the car salesman who was sitting in the passenger seat; he insisted it was normal. Weird!
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by sebastien_b on Saturday February 27, 2021 @11:53PM (#26290788)
Yeah weird, cause mine ran in the normal RPM range at those speeds.
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by sebastien_b on Friday February 26, 2021 @06:23PM (#26281037)
I had a CVT car, and that never gave me any problems (over 180K kms).

My newer car has a traditional automatic - the only reason I didn't go for a CVT is simply that the model I have doesn't come with that option (otherwise I would have opted for it).

Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by philsnow on Friday February 26, 2021 @08:00PM (#26281680)
They're supposed to be more fuel-efficient, I guess? I've only driven one or two, but my perception is that they're slower to respond.

My minivan has a 9-speed automatic transmission and the engine spends 99% of its time either off, idling, or around 1.9k rpm, so it seems like it's efficient enough.

Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by OneLeggedCat on Saturday February 27, 2021 @10:16AM (#26285324)
No. It's like when some some old farts try to tell you that 24fps is just great for movies. The reality is only that people are accustomed to the lower temporal quality of 24fps movies from childhood onward, and don't like the change to something better.
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by P_I_Staker on Friday February 26, 2021 @07:28PM (#26281470)
They're a very unpopular feature among users. I'm not super thrilled with mine, and wouldn't mind going back.
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by JoBrad on Friday February 26, 2021 @08:10PM (#26281737)
Unless you have some evidence proving me wrong, my feeling is that the people who don’t like them are very loud is saying so, while the rest of us simply focus on other things. Some manufacturers like Nissan just did a really bad job tuning their CVTs at the beginning, but I hear this has since been addressed. I never had a problem with the CVT in other vehicles.
Re:In-car touchscreens are dangerous by OneLeggedCat on Saturday February 27, 2021 @10:19AM (#26285343)
Exactly. Properly implemented CVT's are superior in most ways.