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Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @02:06AM (#26234592)
"Content is king."

Google nor Facebook produce any.

It's one thing for consumers to not want to pay for content. We are used to having news for "free". But it's another thing for middlemen to expect to get news for free that they can use to turn a massive profit, undercutting the source's own business.

Bravo to Australia for standing up to the middlemen.

It worked.

Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by jay_kyburz on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @03:07AM (#26234894)
This was not government standing up for anybody. This is a shakedown, pure and simple.

If the government wanted to insure that Australians had a healthy independent news ecosystem, they would have legislated against filtering news for your bubble.

They would have passed laws insuring balance and impartiality in the news itself.

Update: There is nothing in legislation that says the money paid by these companies needs to be paid to journalists or to produce news. This money will go directly into executive bonuses and the news organizations will still go out of business.

Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by mfDjB on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @03:28AM (#26235023)
I've never really understood this argument, the content is still on the news sites right?

The news sites provide blurbs and descriptions through OpenGraph metadata that Facebook use, if they don't want entities to use metadata to make a link richer they could just remove the metadata no?

Basically I want to know how Google or Facebook are exploiting news content to make a profit.

Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @04:33PM (#26243159)
Not just news content but all content. It is very simple. These are high traffic websites that produce no content. They are pure middlemen. Content is what attracts traffic.

Does the website pass the traffic on to the source of the content. The content is the reason for the traffic. Google and Facebook actively aim to keep the user from leaving the website and/or try to track the user after she has left.

What makes news content a pernicious case is the media and these websites are in fact in competition since they share the same customers: advertisers. Google and Facebook produce no content, nor do they sell anything. Except online ad services.

It is fascinating that commenters see this as a "shakedown" when it is tech companies who have raised this concept to new levels. Look at companies like Yelp and DoorDash for blatent examples. More subtle examples are everywhere. Middlemen everywhere. The internet is infested with middlemen.

This cannot last forever. Eventually the novelty of internet service wears off and it is just another means of communication. Tech companies are like switchboard operators. The internet is still in its infancy. They seem indispensible. So too were swicthboard operators, at one time. But in the end, we will not need them. That's innovation. Eliminating the middlemen.

Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by marcus_holmes on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @05:17AM (#26235625)
The business model for news is "pay a journalist to write a story, serve that story to readers accompanied by ads, make enough money on the ads to pay the journalist".

Neither FB nor Google pay journalists. But they have the audience. So the newspaper posts their news story to FB and lets Google index it in the hope that enough people click through the link to read their story and see their ads.

But FB and Google both also serve ads along with the story listing, and they often post enough of the story so that the reader doesn't have to click through to the actual news site. So FB and Google get all the revenue that the story generates, and the news site gets none, despite having to pay the journalist to write it.

Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by postingawayonhn on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @06:02AM (#26235921)
> But FB and Google both also serve ads along with the story listing, and they often post enough of the story so that the reader doesn't have to click through to the actual news site.

This is already covered by copyright law and the news sites can tell Google not to index the site and provide less OpenGhaph data for Facebook.

Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by marcus_holmes on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @09:04AM (#26237319)
The problem is that the news sites don't have a loyal audience of readers, and instead rely on traffic redirected from Google and FB.

> This is already covered by copyright law and the news sites can tell Google not to index the site and provide less OpenGhaph data for Facebook.

They can't delist with Google, because then they don't get that traffic.

They can't provide less data, because then FB's algorithm won't shove their article into enough people's feed.

They can't sue for copyright infringement when they specifically granted both Google and FB permission to use their content as part of their listing.

It's a really tough position for newspapers. The solution is that they need to charge readers directly for news. But that would be a massively difficult undertaking (though the success of the Guardian's "support us directly" campaign using the Wikipedia model does show some hope). It would also mean changing a generation's worth of journalistic practices.

Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by bryan_w on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @02:50PM (#26242000)
I don't know why the news media hasnt innovated like Hulu or Netflix or Apple music or Spotify or... has in the wake of the internet. It's like they think that they are a special form of media or something.

They seemed content to stand by and let their business die rather than adapt a new business model.

Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by johnnyYen on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @02:54AM (#26234834)
I think you are mis-understanding what the news organisations source of business is. It's NOT the consumers of news, and never was. It's the advertising companies who place ads on the news organisations properties - and now the news organisations customers (i.e. the ad companies) have found it more beneficial to advertise with Google and FB.
Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by AlstZam on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @05:59AM (#26235887)
> It's NOT the consumers of news, and never was.

You're right for the vast majority of news organization on internet but we can't say that it's "never was" (or "is" for the matter). I have at least 3 examples [0] in mind of news organizations for which advertising is not part of their business model (or a very insignificant part compared to "consumers of news" part). And I'm sure we can find similar example all around the globe. Of course such organization generally relies on subscription and/or donation. And of course for this to works "consumers of news" need to pay for it.

[0] Sorry all French : Le Canard enchainé (paper) ; Le Monde Diplo (paper and web) ; Mediapart (web)

Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by aeternum on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @02:21AM (#26234673)
Perhaps we should wait until the deal is negotiated before claiming it worked.

My guess is it was likely the Australian news agencies unhappy that their traffic dropped who then pressured the government to reconsider the law and restart talks with FB.

Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by madeofpalk on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @05:25AM (#26235669)
You're... saying this on Hacker News. A website that expects to get "news for free".
Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @03:56PM (#26242766)
Is HN using the data it gets from HN users to sell services to advertisers. You dont think there is a non-commercial versus commercial distinction.
Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by madeofpalk on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @07:49PM (#26245178)
So you think that any commercial website (is HN, ran by a VC firm, even non-commercial?) should have to pay the website for links its users submit?
Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on Wednesday February 24, 2021 @12:23AM (#26246871)
No. But with respect to how Google News and Faceook use "news" to support their respective rackets, I think this is different from the example of HN. For one, HN is not trying to compete for advertiser payments with every website that gets submitted. "Commercial" in the sense I am using it means deriving revenue from the use of news. Perhaps HN does that somehow but to support its VC business but that seems a poor comparison to the likes of Google/Facebook. Big difference between Google News and HN, or a Facebook "news feed" and HN.
Re:Facebook to restore news in Australia after last-minute d... by intricatedetail on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @07:56AM (#26236746)
Media wanted the cake and eat it too while breaking internet. Media want not only free promotion on FB but to also get paid for it. Its a money grab.